How to Normalise Cycling in East Dulwich

[Jakido]

Boris vision for cycling is:

'I want cycling to be normal, a part of everyday life. I want it to be something you feel comfortable doing in your ordinary clothes, something you hardly think about.'

What do you think could and should be done to make this so in East Dulwich, so that children can cycle to school, people cycle to Lordship lane shops, etc?

Full vision here - http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/gla-mayors-cycle-vision-2013.pdf

[bawdy-nan]

I'd like to see cycle paths linking all the schools thereby establishing a network that would cover most of the area

[Earl Aelfheah]

Close some streets in one direction, so as to partition the road and create a network of traffic free cycle routes. Introduce smart card operated, auto locking stands at shops, schools, stations etc, that you can dock your bikes in (like the Boris bikes, but for you private cycle). A bike carriage on trains? Education. Basically lots of investment which isn't going to occur.

[uncleglen]

Fill in the pot holes- Southwark and Lewisham are death traps!

[edhistory]

Does Lewisham have F.M.Conway pot holes?

John K

[the-e-dealer]

Persuade Boris to spend even ?1 on the new cycle scheme in Southwark except changing the speed limit

[northlondoner]

What is the "new cycling scene"?

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Basically lots of investment which isn't going to occur.

The normal approach in UK government is a user-pays approach to funding. Bike riders generate zero cash for the treasury, so there will probably never be much in the way of investment money available.

[the-e-dealer]

Make some streets one-way so the cylcists can go the wrong way down them?

ahrahrah Wrote:

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> Close some streets in one direction, so as to

> partition the road and create a network of traffic

> free cycle routes. Introduce smart card operated,

> auto locking stands at shops, schools, stations

> etc, that you can dock your bikes in (like the

> Boris bikes, but for you private cycle). A bike

> carriage on trains? Education. Basically lots of

> investment which isn't going to occur.

[the-e-dealer]

northlondoner Wrote:

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> What is the "new cycling scene"?

He is building an East West Route- nothing Sarf of the River. AS Usual

[James Barber]

Where do you start...

20mph goes some way. Only Lordship Lane, Melbourne Grove, East Dulwich Grove, Grove Vale, East Dulwich Road are not 20mph. We're working on Lordship Lane from Melbourne/Whateley to Goose Green being made 20mph - uphill struggle though. The bits we share with Village ward councillors is tricky as theyre generally anti 20mph.

Ensuring cyclists can cycle along all our roads - one-way strests becoming two-way or have cycle contraflows. You'll see the Spurling Road cycle contraflow is being 'improved'. Crawthew, Zenoria and Oxanian are about to get cycle contraflows.

Better cycle parking. Research shows cyclists don't visit places as much when cycle parking is close or over 20m away from the destination.

Things like the northern end of Friern Road - filtered permeability - can helps. In Hackney theyve done this and seen big rise in cycling but also commensurate decrease in crashes involving other road users with filtered permeability.

Nice routes like Greendale could be made more bike friendly. Current changes are decraisng its bikeability. Rather sad disfuncitonal use of limited cycle budgets.

Better public transport is useful - gets people out of cars making the roads safer for everyone. Trams being lost from East Dulwich and train line closures Lordship Lane station havent been successfully replaced with buses. So conversations between the coalition and Boris about extending Bakerloo line raise hope. A tub stop Peckham Rye/East Dulwich Road could help with lots of cycle parking.

Any other local ideas?

[Townleygreen]

James

What are they doing to Greendale then?

[James Barber]

Hi Townley Green,

The northern section they're adding a cambridge kerb. Officers have agreed the path their is substandard and not wide enough. Especially as its hard up against a hedge and has lamp posts in the path. DEspite this they've decided to put a kerb to deter people straying across the white line. Instead I asked that the money be spent on bringing that section up to the official London Cycle Network standard. But officers supported by the administration decided to spend a great deal on money making this section less useable and potentially dangerous.

The middle section a building site planning officers, despite my request, decided not to place a condition on thedevelope called a Construction Management Plan. This would reduce the conflict between lorries, etc and cyclists and ensure the timings of works occur away from the busiest cycling and school run times.

The southern section junction with Sainsbury's and Bessemer paths. Both those paths need widening. The junction has a kink introduced to slow speeding cyclists. Instead lorries have turned the surrounding grass into a mud bath. They should remove the kink but ensure sight lines are sensible. But a smidgen of land from St.Olave's school that isnt used would solve most of these issues.

The southern section from that junction to Green Dale road. The footpath is so narrow many walks in the wider cycle path. Some years ago a child was run over by a cyclist and suffered a broken leg. Nasty. Speed humps were introduced because of this. Widening the footpath is the obvious solution to make it more useful reducing the conflict between cyclsits and pedestrians. This also isnt what's planned. But we do have some nice planting at the very southern end. Should make it more appealing to local 6th formers to have a fag!

You did ask!

[James Barber]

One project that would help is theremoval of one-ways streets around Bellenden.

A consultation to this is currently taking place:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/download/3334/bellenden-chadwick_c

[camberlou]

Hi James,

Please can you get as involved now in the new Cycle SuperHighway (5), as you are in the Greendale changes? I appreciate it is not in your ward, but it does pass through Southwark and could be a real benefit to your ward residents, if it's done properly.

The plans at consultation included leaving the off peak parking in place (ie no Superhighway in evenings and at weekends, as seen on CS7, Southwark Bridge Road). This is likely to put some people off trying the superhighway at weekends, or worse, have nasty experiences whilst being forced into the traffic on a main road. And not everyone is going to want to do the route into work in the rush hour for the first time without trying it out.

There is also no allowance for cycles crossing the superhighway to use quieter routes (eg no traffic lights for cycles crossing from Kelly Ave to Lyndhurst Way - a nightmare currently, but will be worse when superhighway in place).

Greendale is happening/has happened. For whatever reason, it's less than ideal. Construction has yet to start on CS5. Please - get in there now. The current plans (at consultation) mean it is likely to re-inforce the lycra clad domination of commuter cycling in London. Rather than normalising it.

(And to be pedantic, I thought it was a Camden kerb going in on Greendale?)

[firth]

Its the too bright epileptic fit inducing bike lights I disagree with

[Applespider]

James Barber Wrote:

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>

> Better cycle parking. Research shows cyclists

> don't visit places as much when cycle parking is

> close or over 20m away from the destination.

It's not so much the distance away that bothers me about parking my bike further away. It's the fear that it (or bits of it) won't be there when I get back. If it's within 20m or so, you've got some chance of keeping an eye on it. I'm far less likely to stop 'en route' in the winter when you have to remove all your lights etc and then put them all back on again to get to the next stop. I had the light mountings nicked a few weeks ago.

Looking at the Guardian's datablog from the 2011 census though showed that ED was quite a bright spot for cycling. It wasn't as high as Hackney but substantially more than other bits of London. I doubt it's a mere coincidence that the areas without the Tube had higher cycle usage!

Less narrowing of roads would be helpful for cycling. I realise that some of it is for traffic-calming but it does make it feel more dangerous for cyclists since you have to take the lane when going through to avoid being squeezed against the kerb - and it's harder to filter when traffic is heavy.

My friends who don't cycle generally cite fear (of traffic), hills and weather. The first is one of those 'bark worse than bite' - most drivers are pretty aware and reality isn't as bad as perception once you start cycling. The second, there's not much you can do about except look for the flattest route and practice... they get easier, the more you do them and even Dog Kennel Hill is hardly Alpe d'Huez. And the weather isn't generally that bad either - you just need to wear the right clothes. And cycling along is definitely warmer than standing at a bus stop or a train platform.

[Coops46]

I commute E.Dulwich to Pitfield Street, Hackney, and there's a marked difference as you go through the boroughs.

I go through Southwark - City - Hackney, mostly on back streets, and the filtered permeability and 2-way cycling means city and Hackney are a lot better to cycle in! Not many cars, and when there are, they're going slower. And especially in Hackney, these calmed streets join up to form routes people will want to take, and NOT spit them out on a dual carriageway.

Parking is a big thing too, I think we're quite well catered for on Lordship Lane, but I see roads like Kingsland Road using cycle parking to separate pedestrians from the traffic flow, and I think that works very well.

The parked cars on Lordship Lane mean you have to pull out into the traffic flow and take the primary position in the lane, which cars hate. Ever tried turning from LL into East Dulwich Grove? With a bus coming in the other direction, and a car trying to undertake you? You have to be very confident to hold up traffic there.

I think you hit the nail on the head with permeability, and it also reduces the opportunities for collisions on roads like Lordship Lane, as there are less junctions and conflict points.

And Camberlou, CS5 isn't going ahead as it was shown before, think the Vision for Cycling document says it will be built to near Dutch standards, and might take a new route?

[Coops46]

Good article on permeability - http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/quietways-if-you-want-to-know-what.html

[camberlou]

Thanks for the link on permeability Coops46. Inspiring stuff.

Great news if there are changes to the proposed CS5. The consultation on Camberwell Green area (broader than just CS5) only closed on Friday and the off peak parking was in that, I think.

Where is the new route? I know they chopped off the bit between New Cross and Greenwich - are there other changes?

I think it could be great. I hope it is. But it won't be if it put together as it was being proposed at consultation. It's going to need the kind of energy that James (and others) puts into those things he gets behind to make it useful for commuters who may not otherwise cycle, rather than providing a slightly safer route for those who already do.

[Coops46]

I'm not sure, here's a quote I found off the same website -

"Cycle Super Highway 5

My understanding is that Cycle Super Highway 5, which is due to launch late this summer, will also see something of a review and that the scheme may be rolled out in phases. The idea is to provide a better quality route from end-to-end. And, if I've understood correctly, to link it to Lewisham (currently planned to end at New Cross). It's a bit like the way we built the motorways. The M1 wasn't built in a single dash. It was built section by section, all to the same quality. I'd far rather that Transport for London built the Cycle Highway properly and took a couple of years over it, then it dashed out a mish mash of segregated lanes and then rubbish blue paint just when things get dangerous. By the way, I also believe that the section from Victoria to Oval will see a serious upgrade on the current plans and that should be built by the end of the summer. Other Cycle Super Highways (and Highway 5 included) may take different routes to the ones published in the past, in order to optimise the routes as much as possible. Again, this makes a lot of sense."

the plan was shocking in terms of providing for new cyclists, instead of lycra racers. Don't think many people want to hurl themselves across 3 lanes of one-way traffic at Harleyford street to get through Vauxhall.

[Townleygreen]

Dear James

Thanks ever so much for taking the trouble to answer my Greendale question in so much detail. Really helpful.

[Applespider]

I do hope that we get the wider southbound cycle lane on Vauxhall Bridge sooner rather than later. And that it's the bus lane option rather than forcing cyclist up onto an already crowded pavement. The pavement option might work for those who want to go straight over on CS5 but anyone wanting to go around Vauxhall will have real trouble filtering across unless they get to the other side as the lights are on red.

[Coops46]

To be fair, I don't think any of it's going ahead like that anymore. Think it's going to be semi-segregated the whole journey at least. That's what the new report makes out - and upgrading the previous Cycle Superhighways to standard.

Bit stupid they built them so poorly in the first place...

[Coops46]

and the best way to have solved the bridge would've been to remove a lane of traffic each way, and fit a proper, wide segregated bike lane across the distance of it.

It's fine going northbound in the bus lane, but on the southbound it's a nightmare.