Defending the indefensible - another PM thread

[JohnL]

There is the linked issues of Russian donations - Lebedev is still in the Lords and many of our leaders turned up for his parties.

[diable rouge]

Gary Kasparov doesn't mince his words on the subject...

The US far behind Europe still, and it?s no coincidence that the UK, where so much Russian money lives, has done so little. Corruption is the only word for it. If they expose it, they will be implicated themselves.

We know that the Tory party has accepted donations from Russian nationals, one in particular with very close links to Putin.

On Wednesday Tory chairman Ben Elliot's concierge firm suddenly removed the web page about its Russian business which includes work for billionaire oligarchs close to Putin.

What other links are there, and how deep do they go? Why did Johnson prevent the release of the Russia Report?

Lots of journalists now all over this, and if Partygate is anything to go by, the truth eventually comes out...

[Seabag]

It?s a fairly simple equation, if Johnson?s involved, it?s sleazy

[JohnL]

This book came out in 1997 - amazing how much has come true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

It hasn't come true, though. Dugin is bonkers and this stuff is just a rambling collection of assertions that give dogmatic cover to the prejudices of siloviki. It's like a cross between Mystic Meg and Sam Huntingdon. It's influential but it's not insightful.

[Seabag]

His and Patel?s Ukraine scheme is working perfectly to plan

Not to get people here, but to frustrate the situation and keep ?them? away

Cynical political shisters that they are

https://apple.news/AjevYGCkhTvuRRItAN7GSRg

[JohnL]

But he's leading the world - even though he seems to have been non-invited to the Council of Europe meeting which Biden is attending

[Waseley]

What is disappointing is that the UK's position both pre and post 2016 is to encourage/ support Ukraine joining the EU. Why Johnson had to include Brexit in his speech heaven knows. Surely not all of middle England buys the xenophobic tone.

[KidKruger]

Seabag Wrote:

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> His and Patel?s Ukraine scheme is working

> perfectly to plan

>

> Not to get people here, but to frustrate the

> situation and keep ?them? away

>

> Cynical political shisters that they are

>

> https://apple.news/AjevYGCkhTvuRRItAN7GSRg

UK Govt. has been dropping adverts about Ukraine on social media, footage of a Ukrainian family reunited at a UK airport.

But why do they show clips of that, when it would more accurately representative to show ?no Ukrainians? arriving at any airport ? Why would they concentrate on showing a clip that is literally unrepresentative of the refugee position in UK ?

Brexit was about keeping those nasty foreigners out, so here it is being played-out in practice.

If the UK Govt wanted Ukrainian refugees here, they?d be here, it?s as simple as that. All the rhetoric and bluster is just the noise that might go along with actually doing something practically useful to the refugees, but without actually doing the important bit - you know, saving people.

[TheCat]

Im no fan of Boris or most of this government. And I certainly agree that the refugee process has been a total shambles, and needs swift overhaul.

But I think its a little unfair that many of these comments seem to imply that the UK government have basically done nothing practical or usefule to help. The UK army has been training Ukraine forces since 2015, with boots on the ground. They have supplied 100's of millions of pounds worth of military equipment (at a time when germany was prevaricating about wether to send a few thousand helmets). This contribution and assistance has specifically been singled out by both the current ukrainian president and the former Ukrainian president.

Yes, the regugee 'programme' is a disgrace. And I know its verboten on this focum to say anything at all positive about this government without being branded (insert approriate slur here), but the government has done plenty more than many other coutnries to help.

[JohnL]

I think a lot of comments are responses to Liz Truss (and others) posting a selfie and saying "we lead the world in (insert whatever they are talking about today)"

We may lead the world in some things but we definitely don't in everything.

[diable rouge]

There was a recent poll and the UK came about third in a list of countries who Ukraine sees right now as an ally, higher than the US, France and Germany, and the main reason given for this was as Cat rightly points out, that the UK has been providing military support over the years. Whether this will change once the UK Gov's appalling response to Ukrainian refugees filters through, remains to be seen, but right now for Ukrainians on the ground it's about military support.

But I think we should also be aware that this support was also good for UK Plc, we've been making money from it, and it could be said it's more to do with that than insightful long-term strategic military planning against a potential Russian invasion.

We should also remember that during the same period the UK Gov has does nothing to stop Putin's oligarchs from essentially laundering their ill-gotten wealth through UK Plc, it's a global thing but the UK, in particular London, has been at the heart of it, hence the moniker Londongrad. All of which has backhandedly supported Putin and ergo the Russian war machine we see now...

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> I think a lot of comments are responses to Liz Truss (and others) posting a selfie...

Liz Trusstagram...

[Seabag]

I think the ?behind closed doors? dilemma the nasty party faced was this. Here?s a humanitarian crisis, one where it could be that we are morally expected to take our fair share of refugees into our country, like every other decent country in the world. Only the powers that be, controlled by a swivel eyed cult baulked at the idea, war or no war.

So someone came up with the wheeze of ?well if people want the UK to take refugees in, then they can take them into their own homes, see if they?re so keen then? thinking in the nimbyist way this government seem to operate. Only it backfired, people signed up in droves to do it, leaving the government with a dilemma, so they have thrown as many spanner?s into the works as possible, making the process as difficult as possible.

Can you imagine all the hard work of creating a hostile Britain for those seeking refuge, only to be undone by a war and its actual war refugees, thousands of them. And specially refugees from a country with a strong desire to join the EU.

It?s quite a sh1t position to manoeuvre a country into.

[diable rouge]

Seabag Wrote:

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''Can you imagine all the hard work of creating a hostile Britain for those seeking refuge, only to be undone by a war and its actual war refugees, thousands of them. And specially refugees from a country with a strong desire to join the EU.''

Spot on sb, the border system has been doing exactly what it was planned to do on the back of Brexit, in particular to Channel crossings, that is to close legal routes for asylum seekers/refugees so people entering immediately become 'illegals' and cue Daily Mail headlines demonising them.

From yesterday...

Yvette Cooper:

?Today, Tory MPs voted to make it a criminal offence for Ukrainian families to arrive in the UK without the right papers with a penalty of up to 4 years in prison...when British people have made clear we need to help Ukrainian refugees, this is deeply shameful."

[Seabag]

I was going to say I hate this country, but it?s more the people that run it, and those that empower them with their votes.

However, that can and will change.

Current status?

Shameful beyond words.

[JohnL]

Sunak heading to the commons for the spring statement

Wonder how he will support everyone/those in need/those rich as Mogg

[Waseley]

Car lobby comes up trumps again. So much for net zero. Better ways of helping those out in need. Perhaps we could have a similar cut for the cost of public transport.

[JohnL]

The RAC has said the 5p fuel tax reduction only takes prices back to where they were just over a week ago.

[JohnL]

He's fiddling with NI - I guess he didn't want to back down on the increase so he's reduced the NI bill somewhere else - if you are an SME the employers NI increase still stands which is why he's given a little to SMEs in another way.

This isn't really going to work as inflation is going to kill us.

Many rents (or if you are shared ownership as many in London are partial rents) go up by RPI (described on Sky News this morning as an anachronism) - that could be 10% for next year.

If you have savings and can't find a return to match inflation or partially live off the interest - your savings valie will fall.

[jazzer]

NO "This isn't really going to work as inflation is going to kill us" a wholly inappropriate thing to say bearing in mind what is happening in the Ukraine NOW.

"If you have savings and can't find a return to match inflation or partially live off the interest - your savings valie will fall." Agreed - that's why some people try and save for a "rainy" day.

We've got the summer around the corner, what is concerning is though is that come late September this year through till March 2023, that's when it's going to get even harder and tougher for people and bills will be higher again than they are now. The Govt are unlikely to do anything else to help.

[diable rouge]

Johnson still refusing to say that the law has been broken, despite the Met already issuing the first tranche of fines for...breaking the law.

A denial because he knows he's going to get a fine?...

[jazzer]

Who cares about "partygate", so he lied, so what, he's a Minister of the Crown, all ministers of all parties don't always tell the truth.

What we should be worried and be more vocal about right now are;

i) Rise in inflation

ii) Rise in cost of living

iii) Rise in cost of gas, electricity and standing charges

iv) War in Ukraine

[Sephiroth]

"Who cares about "partygate", so he lied, so what, "

he didn't just lie - he legislated. People were prosecuted. People didn't see their relatives die

if you accept he can get away with that I have no idea why you think he is fit to handle

i) Rise in inflation

ii) Rise in cost of living

iii) Rise in cost of gas, electricity and standing charges

iv) War in Ukraine

[diable rouge]

We can send men to the moon.

We can find cures for once incurable diseases.

We can even assemble Ikea Billy bookcases without peeking at the instructions*

But apparently we're incapable of tackling rising inflation etc and supporting Ukraine while at the same time, God forbid, hold the Gov and PM accountable for breaking the very laws they legislated and insisted everyone followed.

*Doffs cap and tugs forelock*

*Ok, a bit far-fetched that one...