Denmark Hill station: Beyond a joke

[Applespider]

The design really doesn't help though - why didn't they make the temporary exit on the far side of the new bridge permanent at rush hours. I've also have left the old entrance/exit in place so that at peak hours you could create a contraflow (i.e. out the old exit and in the new entrance). At quiet times, you could lock those exits (a little like they do with some Tube stations) so that you don't need lots of extra staffing.

Thankfully I don't have to do it every day but it must be energy-sapping for those who do.

[Mick Mac]

They have spent so much on the changes, I very much doubt there will be any budget for further changes. it's a disastrous design. few use the expensive new steps and ramps as they are far away from the only exit, there are more (Clapham) trains now and more crowding issues. 5 barriers is far too few and a complete bottle neck.

[Angelina]

I think they could lose the pub and focus on what the building is really required for.

[JohnL]

I can remember the phoenix being there since the early 90s - went for a pint there after an interview.

A fire burned down the station which is why it's called the Phoenix.

I still think the issue is trains not running on time, train management and lack of staff - similar to Peckham Rye (where I've never seen staff on the platforms). Thameslink have really failed the franchise.

[DulwichFox]

Back in the 60's there were staff on every platform. Peckham Rye. They used to change the destination boards manually.

They also kept the fires going with coal in the winter. There were toilets on all platforms too.

Some also planted flowers in tubs.. (No health and safety back then) Just Pride in their jobs.

No one gives a S**t now.

Foxy..

[Mick Mac]

I cant see the relevance of trains running on time to the overcrowding discussion? please explain

1) there are more trains than there used to be, and

2) although we used to have to fit through a small doorway to enter/exit, there were no barriers so there were few problems - the barriers hold things up as there are only two or three open each way and that's proved to be insufficient at peak times

i also fail to see what extra staff would do - the barriers work perfectly fine - they are just too few to enable the large numbers to enter and exit quickly, without having to queue

[Cedges]

Trains not being on time creates an uneven flow of passengers - all of the footfall analysis will have been carried out assuming that the trains all departed and arrived when they are supposed to. There is clearly a link here.

Extra staffing re barriers - if there are 2 sets of barriers, there must be 2 members of staff - 1 set only requires 1 member of staff (to deal with issues).

[Mick Mac]

Cedges Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Trains not being on time creates an uneven flow of

> passengers - all of the footfall analysis will

> have been carried out assuming that the trains all

> departed and arrived when they are supposed to.

> There is clearly a link here.

>

Footfall analysis - really - I'm amazed - that's simply never going to work - a complete waste of time, we all know the trains don't run to time, why try to create some perfect system based on some faulty hypothesis - what a nonsense.

[singalto]

I have rarely found the barriers closed at that station and I have been there a few times when there has been no member of staff at all..

[Bic Basher]

At Forest Hill, if the gates are unsupervised, the ticket office clerk has a button to open the gates if required.

However unlike Denmark Hill, the station has at least one member of staff from first to last train.

[Vick]

Just recently they have had the barriers in operation in the evenings - utter chaos, the other night they had one barrier allowing people out of the station, the queue to exit went down the stairs...even though the priority was given to those entering the station the queue outside was still massive, just not enough barriers

[FACEBOOK]

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> At Forest Hill, if the gates are unsupervised, the

> ticket office clerk has a button to open the gates

> if required.

>

> However unlike Denmark Hill, the station has at

> least one member of staff from first to last

> train.

Forest Hill and Honor oak Park both had addition barriers put in due to overcrowding. However both of these stations belong to LT Overground. How very shortsighted of Thameslink or the previous owners who were dealing with the station up-grades, not to include a second entrance/exit. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise another exit is required. Will it require a stampede, resulting in deaths, before anyone takes any notice of what's happening at Denmark Hill?

[edcam]

Footfall analysis my arse. The contracts for the station "upgrade" we're clearly not awarded to or by anyone with an ounce of sense and I suspect a few people made a fair bit of cash to produce this ugly, inefficient and I'd venture dangerously designed monstrosity. The fact that Thameslink can't run their trains on time adds to the woes.

[cle]

As if all the trains from little halts like Victoria and Blackfriars are cleverly timed so that they don't all arrive at Denmark Hill Central at the same time and clog the stairs!

It needs an exit on the other side - even if just Monday to Friday. It needs another Oyster machine, or for the useless ticket window staff to sell Oyster.

But generally it's better than it was - even if that old duffer talks too much and favours outgoing passengers. Surely someone off a train is in less of a rush than someone pre-train.

[edcam]

I agree there should be another exit and that the ticket office is a joke but there should be no "favouring" outgoing passengers. People should be able to enter and exit at the same time and the flow of passengers should be better directed. It isn't better than before either, it's far worse.

[FACEBOOK]

I would like to suggest that commuters take photos and videos on their mobiles, the next time all the gangways are clogged up as they exit the station.

Send your photos or preferably video recordings, to Harriet Harmen MP. She wrote a letter in Spring to Thameslink re. Overcrowding and late arrivals of trains at this station, however I believe that this death trap of a station needs another exit with more barriers to ease the congestion.

If there were a fire at this station, there would be another Hillsborough.

[isnottropical]

Was anyone else there when the train caught fire back in December? We were all trapped down one end of the platform with people running across the tracks to escape. I would have thought that might have made them think about an exit strategy...

[mikeb]

Now everyone has an Oyster, just opening the gates doesn't get people out quicker as you still have to touch out. They should install some standalone Oyster pads to speed things up. Would be pretty cheap.

[Earl Aelfheah]

?4.18 million was originally allocated for the refurb, but the work overran by more than a year and ended costing an additional 2 million pounds (yes, more than 6 million!). It?s a terrible design ? ugly and impractical. Put together with frequently late running trains it is also now getting quite dangerous.

[Nigello]

I sent this thread on to Tom Edwards, BBC London's Transport reporter.

[James Barber]

The 'upgrade' to this station was funded by the Access for All scheme.

When they consulted Southwark Planning officers, due to the listed nature of the old station buildings, they refused to countenance widening that old walkway to the stairs.

This then resulted in the new walkways, new ticket hall and gating line which is clearly under sized. It only has one ticket machine.

The simplest solution is a new exit/entrance on Windsor Walk OR redoing much of that ?6M Access for All scheme not quite 2 years old.

[Bic Basher]

Another idea would be to pressure the DfT to hand the station management from Thameslink to London Overground.

This would bring adequate staffing to what is a busy station and not some suburban backwater like most of the other stations Thameslink manage on the Catford loop, along with a staffed Oyster ticket machine at the ticket office.

Out of all the train companies who use Denmark Hill, London Overground operate four trains per hour in each direction, Southeastern three and yet Thameslink manage the station with just two per hour.

[FACEBOOK]

Another problem occurs when disabled people in wheelchairs and mothers with prams, cannot leave the lifts because of the overcrowding in the gangways. Considering this station is heavily served by commuters attending Kings College hospital with appointments starting during the rush hour, this is yet another reason why an additional exit is required.

Just what will it take for another exit to be introduced to this station? A fire, a stampede, causing loss of life and injuries?!!!

It's just as well there is a hospital across the road.

[edcam]

It's bizarre that Southwark planning's refusal to allow changes to the walkway resulted in an addition to the station which has detracted from the building in a far greater way.

The main problems (quite apart from the hideous design) are the lack of an additional exit on the far side and the fact that the crowds are forced in both directions into such a ridiculous bottleneck with so few barriers (only one of which was working this morning by the way.) The ticket hall is so small that the only way of seeing the information boards is to stand in the way of the barriers, exacerbating the problems.

The exit needs to be installed on Windsor walk and the ticket hall needs to be demolished and started again. As nice as it is having a coffee shop there, this should form part of the ticket hall. There just isn't room for a pub, a coffee shop AND a station at this site.

[redjam]

According to the official stats, the number of passengers using Denmark Hill has gone up from 3.7 million in 2011-12 to 5.16 million in 2013-14, plus another 100,000 using it as an interchange. No wonder it seems more overcrowded.

I agree the redesign was a disaster - it was a hugely wasted opportunity not to increase the size of the entrance hall and clearly it needs several more barriers and ticket machines, judging by the queues in the morning. The new walkways and ticket hall also look unforgiveably cheap, given how much it all cost - especially sad when considering how lovely the original building was. And yes, another entrance would have been sensible, but I can't see it happening now.

The other thing that seems incredibly dangerous is having the bus stop situated so far away from the crossing lights (which are further up from the station). The result is that everyone just charges over the road blindly in order to get to the station as quickly as they can. Every morning I'm amazed no one is knocked down.