Lordship lane Co-op wants to open 23/7

[Mick Mac]

You can approach Co Op directly in your role as a consultant SJ. ;)

[Mick Mac]

I still feel James that you should have taken on these opinions before objecting. But nevertheless I appreciate you taking views now.

[speedbird]

I agree with most of these posts, this could be good for all of us. It's not like the coop is going to become 'rave' central as a destination. Sounds like a good idea.

[edw]

I live on a residential street not far from the Co-op and I sort of understand James' concerns. During the daytime (and especially at weekends) our street fills up with parked vehicles and from inside the house you can often hear people slamming car doors and chatting. Nothing wrong with that during the day, but if I were trying to sleep it could get very annoying.

Having said that, I am somewhat sceptical that we'd get a comparable number of visitors parking at night if the Co-op extended its opening hours. It's not like all of SE London will start doing their shopping at 2am.

[Sue]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This feedback has been surprising.

> If supports could make tell me if they live within

> a few hundred metres of the Ccop that would be

> useful.

>

> If most people do then perhaps I've got it wrong.

xxxxxxx

I live in Ulverscroft Road (off North Cross Road).

Few minutes' walk to the Co-Op.

[Sue]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > KalamityKel Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > It would be more appropriate to actually

> > > email/contact the licensing department act

> the

> > > council not to email/contact James.

> > >

> >

> > xxxxxxx

> >

> > But that is exactly what James has asked people

> to

> > do in his original post in this thread!

> >

> > He gave the email address of the licensing

> > department for people to do that. He just asked

> to

> > be copied in - obviously you don't have to copy

> > him in if you don't want to.

> >

> > ETA: So I really don't understand why you think

> he

> > has been in any way misleading.

>

> Sue if you're going to quote me please do so

> correctly.

>

> By James asking to be copied in would imply his

> involvement in the application or indeed there is

> some influence to be had with the decision making,

> which, James has indicated he has no part of so

> aside from sheer noseyness why should James be

> included?

> No doubt there are will be some that disagree

> agree with me *shrugs* and waffle on about all the

> good he's doing... blah blah blah. Yes making us

> aware is good but not to give a false impression.

xxxxxx

Please could you tell me where I have quoted you incorrectly? Thanks.

[JohnL]

Delegates versus representatives

Takes me back 30 years to student debates :)

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Because we elect people to let them make decisions

> on our behalf, not expect them to consult us on

> EVERY issue.

>

> It's called representative democracy.

>

> James, in his capacity as a councillor, is

> absolutely entitled to register his discontent at

> this idea without having to conduct some sort of

> survey of the electorate. And he's still entitled

> to vote whatever way he wants regardless.

>

> You are entitled to out an x in a box once every

> four years. Get used to it.

[*Bob*]

I'll lay a fiver that if Le Barber had said he'd supported the application for 24/7 opening a good few of the 'supporting' posts on here would be against it. 'Scuse my cynicism and all.

I think you elect people to have opinions, lead, inform - and take decisions: not fawn over the local residents at every turn. That's a recipe for nothing ever getting done. We have been informed. Barber (and the other councillors it would seem) have formed their opinion and taken a lead. If they've misjudged the mood then perhaps their stance will change - but half a dozen swallows/posts don't make a summer. The ultimate decision isn't even theirs.

Personally I don't think enough people will be bothered to use such a service to make it profitable (point made by S-Gab earlier) so it's something of a moot point.

[Sue]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Personally I don't think enough people will be

> bothered to use such a service to make it

> profitable (point made by S-Gab earlier) so it's

> something of a moot point.

xxxxxxx

I tend to agree, but presumably the Co-Op (at the moment anyway) thinks people will use it. Though I really can't understand the reason for their application to extend sales of alcohol to 6am!!!

Why did Sainsbury's reduce their hours again after increasing them to 24/7? Presumably that was due to lack of custom?

But in any case, surely the application won't be judged on whether the council thinks people will shop during the night or not?

[the-e-dealer]

No they are representatives - The Role of a Local Councillor - from the LGA

Councillors are directly elected to represent the people and therefore have to consider not just the interests of their local electorate, but those throughout the whole ward, to create a harmonious local environment. People of any political or religious persuasion are eligable to become councillors, although their personal views should not extend into their council work. Every service provided by a council is managed in their name.

Members of the councils have a complex role and must act in a number of capacities: as committee member, constituency representative and party activist. Councillors have personal, individual and collective responsibilities for their council?s activities. In addition, as members of political groups or as independents, councillors will express political values and support the policies of the group to which they belong. Individual councillors do not have the authority to make decisions on behalf of the entire council. Councillors who are committee chairs or portfolio holders have more specialised roles in promoting particular policies, representing the council while at the same time working with other agencies to tackle issues such as housing, social services, schools, the environment and transport.

[Worker]

Agree with Bob.

Shame they can't open longer on a Sunday; many's a time I've turned up at Co-Op past 5pm for some critical dinner ingredients and been disappointed. Don't even get me started on Dulwich DIY not opening on Sunday.

James, if I were you I'd burn the EDF. While I appreciate your contributions, I doubt it's a vote winner at the end of the day.

[the-e-dealer]

bob is - on this occasion just wrong. how can you agree with him on a statement of fact that is wrong?

[Worker]

Um, because he's blinded me with his dead pan humour?

Because I don't think he's wrong (which is why I agreed with him, you see). He's said James can't take a referendum on every issue, which he can't. And that he may change his mind if (ad hoc) he senses opinion is for the extended hours. This seems a reasonable approach.

[the-e-dealer]

Ah so you dont agree they are not representatives - fair enough.

[puzzled]

a 24 hr co-op sounds vile.

now, a 24-hr waitrose... NOW you are talking

[AndrewFFF]

I'm for it as it increases competition and given my recent experience of Sainsbury's I think that's a good thing. I live next to a 24 hour shop, chicken shop and Tesco Metro at the end of East Dulwich Road so 7/8 minute walk away or half that time by bike. The only issue is the chicken shop as they continually serve after 11pm despite not being licenced to do so. They have been warned and visited by Southwark but they are not a good addition to the local area.

I don't understand the parking issue in LL; bottom line is there are way too many cars in SE22 and why people feel they have to drive when the vast majority could walk, use public transport or cycle.

[ed_pete]

Isn't the Co-operative a democracy ? It says on their website "Democracy ? we give our members a say in the way we run our businesses" I'm a member and I don't recall being asked as to whether or not I thought it was good idea to extend their opening hours.

Personally I don't live close by and I doubt very much that I'd use it between 11pm and 7pm (past my bedtime) and to be honest I doubt that many others will either. Pity the staff who work there after the pubs and bars close on Friday/Saturday.

And jeez, give James a break - how many of you would even be aware of this issue if he hadn't highlighted it in the first place ?

[worldwiser]

Loving the extremely reasoned and well-mannered approach of some on this thread.

I'm trying to understand, the license application says: "Application to apply for late night refreshment Mon-Sun 23.00-05.00. Opening 24 hrs a day." This is not on their existing license 839903 which was only granted 2 months ago.

Does this mean that the Co-op wants to move into the all-night cafe business? I live very close by and I definitely wouldn't be in favour of that. Also there appears to be no mention on their existing license of when they can have deliveries which are typically way more disruptive than the odd late night shopper. Any idea why there's no clause in the current license James?

The only possible grounds for objection seem to be under 'prevention of public nuisance'. I can't find anything to do with 'likely to affect existing local traders'. Can one object on that front?

[James Barber]

Hi worldwiser,

The Co op have appleid to extend existing licence from 6am-10pm to 5am-11pm and late night refreshment 11pm to 5am. Effectively they can sell 23/7.

Any review of licences could include cnditions around deliveries. So if I were you I'd contact the licensing officers and state that deliveries are an issues and ask for conditions aorund times of deliveries.

I've not been able to track down any planning conditions about times of opening or deliveries. I've asked officers if they have any recorded.

hope this helps.

Regards james.

[edhistory]

worldwiser Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Does this mean that the Co-op wants to move into

> the all-night cafe business? I live very close by

> and I definitely wouldn't be in favour of that.

I made the simple presumption that they wished to run their hot drinks machine after 11pm.

Could be wrong.

John K

[Sue]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi worldwiser,

> The Co op have appleid to extend existing licence

> from 6am-10pm to 5am-11pm and applied for a second

> licence to sell alcohol 11pm to 5am. Effectively

> they can sell 24hours.

>

xxxxxx

I thought their overnight application was for "refreshments", which doesn't include alcohol?

If they are wanting to sell alcohol 24/7 then that is a different matter (though the Costcutter just down the road from the Co-Op sells alcohol all hours, and I've never noticed any kind of disruption in there late at night).

ETA: The pdf that you attached to your first post says:

Application to vary the hours of selling alcohol from Mon-Sat 07.00-23.00 to 06.00-23.00.

No change for Sun.

Application to apply for late night refreshment Mon-Sun 23.00-05.00.

Opening 24 hrs a day.

Also they are already selling alcohol till 11pm. The extension applied for is only from 6am to 7am.

I have defended you on here thus far, but please get the facts right - after all, you posted them on here yourself!

[gregring]

I'd be very surprised if they are awarded a license to sell alocohol between 11.00pm and 05.00am with the Government looking to crack down on binge drinking incidents. Echoing Sue, I've never witnessed any trouble at the Costcutter store either.

[Sue]

gregring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd be very surprised if they are awarded a

> license to sell alocohol between 11.00pm and

> 05.00am with the Government looking to crack down

> on binge drinking incidents.

xxxxxx

They haven't applied for one, if you read their application.

[the-e-dealer]

Hic too much alocohol !

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Definitely don't want Co op opening longer .

Killing you with their GM cheese and arranging your Co op funeral after ;)