Rye Lane reopening to buses, but permanent closure still looms

[Bic Basher]

I thought it was delivery vans and trucks that were the main issue on Rye Lane as buses squeezed past which added more time onto bus journeys.

[IainJ]

If it's a shared space between buses and cyclists it's more controlled and probably safer for pedestrians too, and with a lot less traffic than the open roads. There's always the option of Bellenden Road as a parallel quiet cycling route.

[malumbu]

There were always numerous private cars parked on Rye Lane, you could say it is ironic that Southwark enforce the LTN but did not enforce the controls over Rye Lane when it was open to buses and limited traffic. I got quite obsessed by this a few years ago so have been in the place that many anti LTNers are now.

[Sally Eva]

Maybe if we think about what worked well while Rye Lane was closed?

I would say that it was dominated by pedestrians ( a good thing IMO) and delivery lorries were successfully kept out after about 10am.

There was a traffic short-cut Bournemouth/rye Lane /Choumert which brought private cars down the Lane and that was closed, improving safety for all.

Bus travel around the Lane (ie using Consort Road) was faster IMO. If you weren't going to Rye Lane, your journey was considerably speeded up. My heart used to sink as the bus approached Rye Lane and the rise again as I realised we would go around it. That's a selfish thought but nevertheless a benefit for people not going to Rye Lane itself.

If we could keep some of those benefits (perhaps not the buses being quicker and more reliable) then that would be nice

[oimissus]

That seems more of an argument for some additional bus routes, Sally.

I just can?t get over the number of journeys going through Peckham Rye station and yet there are suggestions that the train station should not be smoothly linked with buses. I can only assume that none of those supporting those kinds of measures are commuters.

It?s got nothing to do with disliking LTNs and everything to do with astonishment that public transport, which benefits the majority, especially those with limited mobility, and local businesses don?t seem to matter to many people.

In my opinion, far better to keep the pavements clear of overspill from shops and stalls, and unnecessary street furniture, to allow the most amount of room for pedestrians, bring back the buses to allow smooth interconnection with the station and access to shops, keep cars off the Lane, have dedicated times for delivery vans and divert the cyclists to quieter roads alongside Rye Lane (and ensuring a decent amount of bike racks on the Lane).

I was at the PeckhamPlex for the first time in ages yesterday and while it was great when everyone piled out that people could walk along the road, I am glad that I could just walk home easily (I live less than 10 mins from Rye Lane) rather than having to trek 500/600 km to the bus stop (luckily it wasn?t raining) or bring my car.

[Lebanums]

Is there any news of when Rye Lane is being opened to busses? I'm having to drop & collect my wife from the station each day for work.

[Nigello]

18/10 was the date announced by the council a few weeks ago.

[legalalien]

YouTube video of last night?s overview and scrutiny committee has appalling sound quality, but for those who would like to watch the Rye Lane bus bit starts around 2:27.

Guts of Cllr Rose?s presentation - Peckham rye is a really busy station / interchange and links into lots of bus routes, in particular buses from the south of the borough where PTAL is poor. Various improvements planned for parallel Spine route (?imminent? says Councillor Rose, per Dale Foden orders have just been sorted and still have to go through formal order and network management process - later on he says that while resurfacing around (Bellenden?) will be soon, other pavement stuff etc has to go through consultation etc / not quite yet although they?ll see if we can bring forward. Extensive consultation to continue, including on various public realm projects.

A few members of the public were allowed to speak along with Jasmine Ali as ward councillor, describing the ward forum that was held. Eileen Conn as always, has words of wisdom - here about the need to get the data collection and consultation / evaluation right. One resident asks whether permanent closure is still on the agenda. Impassioned plea on behalf of the traders (who acknowledge need for a clean up). Will work with passenger rep groups. Will be preregistration for the consultation - not much other detail. I don?t think she answered the question about whether closure to buses was still on the table. Cllr Ali mentioned ideas around shuttle buses or timed closures so seems to me hard to tell. (Cllr Werner also mentions the possibility of electric shuttle buses for those unable to walk, for climate change reasons. Someone else mentions the night time economy and Cllr Rose does say that the scope of a trial might lead to eg night time closure or closure for particular events as in Hackney (Church Street / Church Road?). Cllr Rose re-emphasises that this is the third busiest station in the borough and there are loads of buses, and also that diverting buses down other routes causes problems / congestion on the adjacent road network.

Someone asks about the fact that there?s no baseline data against which to measure the scheme, and also mentions the government guidance saying schemes shouldn?t be removed without data (the premature removal argument used to justify keeping ltns in place). Cllr Rose says something about nearby schemes and other historic transport interventions and how they can use that to model a baseline of active travel etc to use...

Cllr Chamberlain at 3:03 expresses concern at the lack of call in and the council shying away from public scrutiny and inconsistency around the borough (consultation in Dulwich, no consultation in Rye Lane) there?s an argument around the non-acceptance of the call in of the Rye Lane decision (LDs had asserted a lack of due consultation on reopening Rye Lane, and lack of consideration of climate change issues. But their call in request was rejected) Note LDs seem to be in favour of pedestrianisation of RL but that isn?t really the point - the concerns are about failure to get an adequate baseline to measure the increase in active travel that has happened in the area. Also concern about the process by which a few residents were chosen to speak (the chair insists that they weren?t invited, they put themselves forward - Cllr Chamberlain presumably cross that no one pro-closure had an opportunity to speak - yet again council being selective about who gets a voice and who doesn?t..)

Lack of an adequate data baseline looks to be a common concern across both schemes, despite complaints in Dulwich being about roads being closed, and the reverse in Peckham Rye!

About 3:32 Cllr mcCullum asks where the climate emergency analysis is, apparently that will be done as part of the trial. Cllr Rose makes a point about how important a working bus network is.

[rupert james]

I am surprised Cllr Ali said anything as she never replies to anything thing.

Where we live we have a local shuttle bus called the P13 or has Cllr Ali forgotten, since it stopped running up Chadwick Road pass her house missing out stops that people always used for a route that goes nowhere near Rye Lane

Why should we have timed closures, never have and not needed. Bellenden Village!!! is trying to turn its self into DV.

Its becoming a joke. New Cllrs required.

[peckhamside]

Agree. I have started cycling on the back route, it feels safer even with traffic than weaving along Rye Lane, it is not a race track due to turns at junctions, which is my guess as to why it is less popular.

[McMurphy]

thanks for sharing LegalAlien.

LibDems have lost my vote if they are in favour of banning buses down Rye Lane. How, in a badly served area, further knackering public transport helps us with the climate emergency I don't know.

[rupert james]

Can anyone confirm if the buses have returned to Rye Lane today as promised?

Many thanks

[greenmice]

Yes they have although I guess this will be too late

[rupert james]

Thanks.Just used. The P13 is back on its old route also.

Life returns to normal.

[IainJ]

Yes, open at last but the threat of closure is still there. For such a simple proposal - i.e. that Peckham Rye Station should be served by buses just like every other in Greater London, at Scrutiny Committee members appear to be giving credibility to all sorts of bizarre ideas - e.g shuttle buses. Who would want to change buses at the top of Peckham Rye to wait for another bus for the two stops to the station. What possible advantage would this be? Also closing it at night - the very time that bus services are most needed from the station to get quickly and safely home and not have to walk a long distance down Rye Lane. Traffic free days - might make some sense for a few hours at a weekend, with enough notice, but only if the bus services return in the evening. If the Dulwich LTN is anything to go by, the Council will pay lip service to objections but go for closure if its supporters want it.

[KidKruger]

Utter madness.

[Nigello]

I agree that the best solution to how to get bus passengers to the railway station is to use a standard London bus, not a standard London bus and then a mini bus run by goodness knows who. As for closing it at night - just give it a rest, zealous councillors and officers!

[rupert james]

Out of interest if this silly idea ever saw the light of day, do you have to buy another ticket for the shuttle bus and just how far would this bus run and through what streets. Will parking have to go to provide drop off and collection points.

Career path.

Think up a really silly idea , become a Cllr if it appeals to the eco crowd and then get promoted to a position of power, Leader, deputy leader or cabinet member for the silliest idea.

The world is then your lobster Terry. (Arfur Daley, Minder)

[Siduhe]

Others on here (like Eileen) will have more informed views, but it's seemed relatively clear to me for a while now that Southwark's views on what the regeneration of Rye Lane should look like has changed quite a bit from when it first started the project in 2017 or 2018. Then it was about opening up the station area, making the courtyard and arches easier to access and safer with a focus on existing community uses and workspaces for local businesses.

The language now is much more about making Peckham a destination for leisure and entertainment and continuing the gentrification of the area for a new group of people and businesses, rather than a lot of the existing shoppers. I know some people on here welcome that, but it increasingly feels to me as if there is no interest in maintaining what is there already. The relocation of many of the black-owned hair salons to Peckham Palms was handled really badly by the Council in my view, and - while that change does appear to be working out for some of the owners - it's been hugely disruptive for others.

We're seeing the same thing (again, my view) in the calls to close Rye Lane to bus traffic and in the redevelopment of Peckham Square, which is supposed to be a community-led project under Southwark Stands Together, and the architect consultants seem to be doing a good job on that, but the only comment I've seen from local councillors on the project is that it would be nice to have a regular farmers market there, which rather misses the point for me.

[mac4]

What a pleasure to find Rye Lane open to buses this morning and easy access reinstated to the station and shops etc. It's unfortunate that Southwark Council have replaced one Experimental Traffic Order with another Experimental Traffic Order but I'm sure they will pay close attention to the next consultation exercise in order to avoid an endless parade of Experimental Traffic Orders and temporary trials.

[jazzer]

Peckham was a shopping destination probably 50 years ago when it had "proper" shops on Rye Lane (see previous posts).

Look at it then and compare it to now (there is no comparison to the changes it has ben through). People in and from Peckham work hard and have never had it easy, it has always been a struggle, gentrification is the last thing it needs, it will continue to drive out the originals.

And - anyone remember when the council installed pop up bollards in Hanover Park which were never used/worked. Another dumb ass scheme concocted by cllrs to control traffic. Let the buses now run as they always used to.

[KidKruger]

Not a fan of the Rye Lane (ethnic) cleansing intentions.

But money will rule. 😭

[Spartacus]

If memory serves well the Program Programme installed the pop up bollards as "they work well in Oxford"

The problem with them was that Cars tailgated buses and found a bollard popping up under them.

Cost of repairs were so high that the achene was abandoned and eventually taken out.

The issue of "another experimental traffic order" may well be resolved post the next local elections 😉

[alice]

anyone remember what it cost?

[Nigello]

I agree with jazzer - looking back at pictures of the Lane right up to the mid-80s does show a different place entirely. Demographics change and no doubt the look of the Lane will too, but right now it is unloved and the same standards that apply to, say North Cross Road, do not apply in SE15, which is wrong. Everyone deserves to shop in a clean and welcoming environment and the Lane is not always that, what with its litter, rotting vegetable matter, masses of scrawl on walls and shutters, etc. Maybe Southwark think people with limited budgets don't mind as long as their pounds go further. I hope not, because this would be condescending and discriminatory, even.