Rye Lane reopening to buses, but permanent closure still looms

[IainJ]

So Rye Lane is at last to re-open to buses.

But only for a trial period, with yet more consultations after 6 and 18 months on permanent closure.

It's clear that, as with the Dulwich Review, the Council wants to close it for good and will slant it to secure that outcome. The last consultation was not well publicised and completely ignored the thousands of people who regularly used the 8 bus routes converging on the station from East Dulwich, Honor Oak and Nunhead - 12, 197, 63, 363, 37, 78, 343 and P12. For the last 18 months, and previously for half a year everyone has had to walk the 500m from the top of Peckham Rye, two bus stops short of the station - night and day, rain or shine, every journey.

It's great news that the ?40m restoration and refurbishment scheme for Peckham Rye station is going ahead, improving access for the elderly, those with disabilities, young children, luggage or heavy shopping. Yet the Council is about to consult on a serious proposal to deny these and all other users direct access to bus services permanently.

Peckham Rye station is a major interchange with four platforms served by Thameslink, Overground, British Rail metro and distance services. If this goes ahead it would be the only principal station in Greater London without direct bus services. This would breach a fundamental principle of the Mayor's transport strategy to provide direct connectivity between different modes of public transport, i.e.,

'High-quality public transport services that connect seamlessly to other forms of active, efficient and sustainable travel are required across the city to provide alternatives to car use.'

Millions were spent to build the bus station at Canada Water in this borough when the Jubilee Line opened in 2000, the same at North Greenwich, creating new transport hubs. There has been connectivity from East Dulwich, Nunhead and Honor Oak first with horse buses, then motor buses, now hybrids and soon electrics. But the Council seems only interested in walking or cycling, and seems happy to re-route all these buses permanently through back streets with no stops.

The closure of Rye Lane has also had negative consequences for the public realm as the explosion of graffiti will attest without the passive surveillance from bus users. Shops have closed for lack of trade. With the current concerns about women's safety, would you want to walk all the way down Rye Lane on a cold wet night rather than hop on a bus to get safely home?

The Council must engage all residents living in the areas served by the 8 bus routes in a meaningful consultation, not just an obscure listing on their website. Most have no other realistic option but to use the station and their voice has not been heard. It has all been about playing cricket in the middle of Rye Lane. If the Council only consults people living around the station it's not surprising they might hear only one view.

If Rye Lane is to thrive as a transport, shopping, leisure and cultural hub it needs to have the bus services made permanent for the benefit of all local residents.

Southwark is running an on line forum consultation starting on Tuesday 28 September at 7 p.m.

Register at this link and you will receive an email response about how to join the meeting:

https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJIkdOCpqz4pGdHOryugIsc8vHD2GnGQKYX8

If you care about this please make your voice heard - write to Cllr Catherine Rose, the Cabinet Member for Transport, local Councillors, M.P.s (both Harriet Harman and Helen Hayes) and the Mayor.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

IainJ Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The closure of Rye Lane has also had negative

> consequences for the public realm as the explosion

> of graffiti will attest without the passive

> surveillance from bus users. Shops have closed for

> lack of trade.

I don't think much of the "passive surveillance from bus users" claim, not least because there's always been tons of graffiti and flyposting on Rye Lane. The (still opwn) bus stop outside the kebab shop/Tesco is the epicentre of flyposting afaics

The lack of trade may also have had something to do with the global pandemic that meant many people stopped commuting and working. I'm sure it's true that worse access to bus stops didn't help tho.

TBH more wrecking ball traffic and more roadsweeper traffic are probably just as important for Rye Lane in the long term. It's a dirty, ugly spooky street.

[sally buying]

Why have they not reinstated the P13ack on its original route?

Many people from the Bellenden area used to use it to get to and from Rye Lane.

Impossible to get an answer from the local Cllr.

[jazzer]

IainJ Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So Rye Lane is at last to re-open to buses.

>

> But only for a trial period, with yet more

> consultations after 6 and 18 months on permanent

> closure.

>

> It's clear that, as with the Dulwich Review, the

> Council wants to close it for good and will slant

> it to secure that outcome. The last consultation

> was not well publicised and completely ignored the

> thousands of people who regularly used the 8 bus

> routes converging on the station from East

> Dulwich, Honor Oak and Nunhead - 12, 197, 63, 363,

> 37, 78, 343 and P12. For the last 18 months, and

> previously for half a year everyone has had to

> walk the 500m from the top of Peckham Rye, two bus

> stops short of the station - night and day, rain

> or shine, every journey.

>

> It's great news that the ?40m restoration and

> refurbishment scheme for Peckham Rye station is

> going ahead, improving access for the elderly,

> those with disabilities, young children, luggage

> or heavy shopping. Yet the Council is about to

> consult on a serious proposal to deny these and

> all other users direct access to bus services

> permanently.

>

> Peckham Rye station is a major interchange with

> four platforms served by Thameslink, Overground,

> British Rail metro and distance services. If this

> goes ahead it would be the only principal station

> in Greater London without direct bus services.

> This would breach a fundamental principle of the

> Mayor's transport strategy to provide direct

> connectivity between different modes of public

> transport, i.e.,

>

> 'High-quality public transport services that

> connect seamlessly to other forms of active,

> efficient and sustainable travel are required

> across the city to provide alternatives to car

> use.'

>

> Millions were spent to build the bus station at

> Canada Water in this borough when the Jubilee Line

> opened in 2000, the same at North Greenwich,

> creating new transport hubs. There has been

> connectivity from East Dulwich, Nunhead and Honor

> Oak first with horse buses, then motor buses, now

> hybrids and soon electrics. But the Council seems

> only interested in walking or cycling, and seems

> happy to re-route all these buses permanently

> through back streets with no stops.

>

> The closure of Rye Lane has also had negative

> consequences for the public realm as the explosion

> of graffiti will attest without the passive

> surveillance from bus users. Shops have closed for

> lack of trade. With the current concerns about

> women's safety, would you want to walk all the way

> down Rye Lane on a cold wet night rather than hop

> on a bus to get safely home?

>

> The Council must engage all residents living in

> the areas served by the 8 bus routes in a

> meaningful consultation, not just an obscure

> listing on their website. Most have no other

> realistic option but to use the station and their

> voice has not been heard. It has all been about

> playing cricket in the middle of Rye Lane. If the

> Council only consults people living in and around

> the station it's not surprising they might hear

> only one view.

>

> If Rye Lane is to thrive as a transport, shopping,

> leisure and cultural hub it needs to have the bus

> services made permanent for the benefit of all

> local residents.

>

> Southwark is running an on line forum consultation

> starting on Tuesday 28 September at 7 p.m.

>

> Register at this link and you will receive an

> email response about how to join the meeting:

>

> https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJIkdOCpqz4pGdHOr

> yugIsc8vHD2GnGQKYX8

>

> If you care about this please make your voice

> heard - write to Cllr Catherine Rose, the Cabinet

> Member for Transport, local Councillors, M.P.s

> (both Harriet Harman and Helen Hayes) and the

> Mayor.

Great post Sir.

[IainJ]

Debatable, although both the Paris Metro and New York subway found that graffiti made users feel unsafe and set about removing it. But as you say the street feels spooky, so who would want to walk down there at night rather than catch a bus from the station.

[alice]

Nasty post DKH so why do I feel safer down rye lane than the silent dead streets you cherish.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I have no idea who you are or what you're on about.

IainJ Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the Paris Metro and New

> York subway found that graffiti made users feel

> unsafe and set about removing it.

Oh I'm not a fan of the graffiti. 99% of it is complete crap, and sends the message that this is a place where anyone can do what they want and about which no-one cares.

[Nigello]

I think that buses belong on such an important thoroughfare, especially because it has a busy rail station and many shops on it. There?s room for cyclists and pedestrians. I agree that much of the street is unattractive and uncared for and am dismayed that any elected representative would allow such decay to arise, even without a prompt. To leave it without bus access but with litter and vandalism speaks volumes about the councillors and MP, as well as the business owners who likely shut up shop and go home of an evening, leaving the trash and ugly frontages behind them.

[ctovey]

What date is Rye Lane reopening to buses? Bus apps have been showing the P13 running along its original route via Rye Lane, for several weeks now, resulting in the bus 'disappearing' between Peckham bus station and Avondale Rise.

[richard tudor]

That's because it does not run on its original route.

Leaves the bus garage then goes along Peckham Road, into Lyndhurst Road and then into the Bellenden one way system,

Missing out the Rye lane part into Chadwick Road.

As the Deputy Leader of the Council lives in Chadwick Road perhaps they do not want to have a bus route.

The original route was instigated for a reason. People.

[ctovey]

Richard Tudor - yes, I understand that its not running its original route. About 6 months after the route changed, this was showing on the bus apps ie. via Harris Academy, but this changed back again about 3 weeks ago, leading me to believe that the route was changing via Rye Lane again, but as yet it hasn't.

[sally buying]

Ask Jasmine Ali why?

[IainJ]

Some routes are showing Rye Lane reinstated, others not. I think it is to open on 4 October. I agree the P13 should be included, making 9 in all serving the station via Rye Lane.

[Abe_froeman]

It's worse than litter and vandalism. There are people openly dealing drugs on the street there now becuase no vehicles at all pass by so it is almost completely unpoliced

[SEnewbie]

I feel the point about safety (in particular womans) is really important, pre closure, if working late, train to P Rye & quickly hop On bus. Not anymore. Not nice walking around after dark. This would be same anywhere in London. Not easily quantifiable & appreciate very subjective. Really hope they reinstate the bus, it?s much safer for journeys home.

[DulwichFox]

Walking along Rye Lane last week, it would seem that road markings,

Yellow lines and bus lanes have been Freshly painted.

Might be wrong but think perhaps the road is being made ready to be opened up.

Possibly for Buses only.

Let's hope so.

DulwichFox

[Eileen]

This is a reminder that the Council zoom meeting to discuss this is on Tuesdsy 28th Sep 7pm in two days time. It is really important to get a good spread of users of Rye Lane into that discussion. Hope many of you can attend and contribute to it. To get the zoom link you must email Gill.Kelly@southwark.gov.uk to register and ask for the link.

[KidKruger]

Thanks Eileen.

[redpost]

cidolphus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, it is being reopened for buses and if you

> look closely on Southwark's website you will see

> that their budget for the costs involved in

> reopening is ?400,000.

>

> Now, add that to their costs for closing it in the

> first place plus the costs to local businesses and

> you will get some measure as to how stupid the

> Council's original proposal was.

>

> Getting it wrong once is arguably understandable

> but to repeat this misguided policy with all the

> LTN closures is absolutely and totally

> unforgivable.

>

> Shame on all the Southwark councillors.

It's actually been resurfaced after the thames water works dug up the whole lot, so perhaps this is reflected in the costs.

[Pugwash]

Have not been able to get to Rye Lane since earlier in the year. I have arthritis and use a stick, would normally use the stop near Primark going home, but other stops are out of my walking ability.

[Eileen]

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Have not been able to get to Rye Lane since

> earlier in the year. I have arthritis and use a

> stick, would normally use the stop near Primark

> going home, but other stops are out of my walking

> ability.

Hi Pugwash - hope you register for the zoom meeting today at 7pm so you can make this point. Email Gill.Kelly@southwark.gov.uk to register and get the zoom link.

In the debate about pedestrianisation many say everyone can walk from buses stopping at either end of Rye Lane. Those with more experience of the town centre know this is not the case and that many people with mobility challenges, people with small children, and people with heavy luggage catching the train can't walk those distances so they are excluded from the town centre and from the station.

It is really important to get these voices also into the debate so that the local community and the Council can get a much better picture of what they need to think about in deciding the future of vehicles in Rye Lane.

[KidKruger]

I?ve not had a reply from that email address - how have others fared ?

[heartblock]

Pug wash, this is the important point. Encouraging cycling and walking is always a good idea, but not at the detriment of efficient public transport, which is where the street changes have got it so wrong.

The whole scheme is very ableist and impacts those with poor or less mobility. I also know of three NHS workers who depend on the bus route to make their train connections and the closure combined with the lack of a bus has impacted their journey as essential workers.

[Nigello]

Even if there are buses, the lane is a dump and nobody - either those in authority or the people who own or manage businesses - wants to grasp the nettle. It is so condescending to let it just stagnate, even decline. I go very early in the day and only when I absolutely need to. It deserves more attention and care, and that does not mean making it trendy for younger people - who, like all of us, don't remain young and who as a demographic are more likely now to live in Deptford or even Catford now that Peckham is no longer deemed with-it.

[KidKruger]

Horses for courses, I suppose.

I very much like Rye Lane, esp. for my fruit / veg and goat. It?s a bit tatty but that?s part of the charm.

Bring the buses back and we?re game back on for everybody.

I?d hate to see it morph into another Lordship Lane.

A bit rough around the edges but so what ? It?d be a shame for Rye Lane to be sterilised.

Like I said, horses for courses.