Petrol stations

[richard tudor]

Traffic down Dog Kennel Hill towards the roundabout at a stand still when I came past at 12.10

[mrwb]

The only shortage is the one being caused by the panic buying itself!

If everyone just did nothing and bought as usual there wouldn't be a problem.

What is happening just sums up the state of this era generally perfectly.

KidKruger Wrote:

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> There is no petrol shortage.

> The transport minister said so.

> No fuel shortage, says transport secretary

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58696999

[Sally Eva]

I think this is the Government's view of the "shortages" as Grant Shapps just said ie there are no real shortages. So, in their view, you don't need a solution because there is no real problem.

10,000 EU lorry drivers who probably won't come, won't fix the petrol supply but (in their view) that doesn't matter because there's nothing to fix. The problem is perception so fix the perception with some headlines and the "problem" will be over.

However, there is a real underlying problem which the supply chain companies have been going on about for months now ie a shortage of workers in agriculture, hospitality, logistics, the NHS and caring generally.

Be interesting to see what happens next.

[Spartacus]

Unfortunately you can't fix people panic buying which is the real cause of queues and petrol price hikes, the shortage initially only effected a small number of 2 retailers petrol stations yet due to the media (both traditional and social) people are panicking unnecessarily which is causing the scenes we see for the last few days.

Considering we've gone 10 months without petrol shortages due to drivers then it's highly likely that the tanker sector was resilient to outside interference (be it brexit, Covid or driver shortages ) so this is in all reality a blip causes by people panicking that in 3 weeks they will run out of petrol and those that need it now (emergency crews, night workers who have to drive and similar to name a few) are being impacted by the same mentality that created toilet roll shortages, panic food buying and by now, I suspect, Turkey Rustling.

If all forms of media were more balanced in how they report things, we wouldn't be jumping from one crisis to another like trained sheep at the mercy of the news outlets sheep dogs.

[tedfudge]

My wife just filled up her car as I need it for work .. she qued up at asda in old Kent road for 1 and a half hours and people trying to push in she said there are people marshalling but drivers arguing and fights breaking out.. she said she drove down towards asylum road and petrol station was open with only 6 cars there and no ques .. if anyone needs fuel that may be a place to try... on a different note I'm in Barry road and sure I can smell fire from some where its very strong.. wife said she saw 6 fire engines and racing somewhere but not sure where to ..

[AylwardS]

True what the government say or not about there being no petrol shortage and it being a distribution issue the panic buying is causing a shortage.

Re the comment about bread in Moscow - rationing came next. Is that where we?re headed?

I walked up Grove Vale yesterday past the queue for the petrol station and it was only seeing the news this morning I realised that was what I?d seen.

Petrol is needed by some more than others. London, even East Dulwich with the reduced services, is well served by public transport. Some areas of the country aren?t - my sister in the North needs to start work early and there are no nightbuses so her only options are walk, cycle or drive. Walking and cycling are possible but on top of a shift on your feet and carrying equipment not ideal. Ambulances need petrol to run, delivery drivers need petrol for their vans and others need petrol to get to / do their jobs.

Before you join a queue to fill up, or even get the car out, ask yourself do you really need the car? If you do is the fuel in the tank enough for your needs? If the fuel is just going to sit in the tank you?ve stopped someone else who could have used it and maybe stopped an ambulance reaching someone or someone being able to work and the knock on effects. Looking at it like that do you need the stress of driving and the lost time?

Do you know someone who filled up jerry cans? Could they offer fuel to someone who can?t work / do something for someone self-isolating / get to their Covid booster or flu jab appointment?

[KidKruger]

If you?re on foot and want to fill up a Jerry can, how do you even do that when there?s a queue of cars without getting assaulted ?!

Go and stand in the road behind the last car in the line ? 🙄

[KidKruger]

People with non ULEZ-compliant cars in the newly expanded zone should be getting relief from daily use charges from October.

If you can?t buy fuel, you can?t be polluting the zone, right ? 🤣

[malumbu]

In deed, I expect that Southwark has hired some heavies to cause mayhem at filling stations.

[Huggers]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> People with non ULEZ-compliant cars in the newly

> expanded zone should be getting relief from daily

> use charges from October.

> If you can?t buy fuel, you can?t be polluting the

> zone, right ? 🤣

I believe you only pay the charge when you drive the car, not when it sits unused

[KidKruger]

Yeah absolutely.

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > People with non ULEZ-compliant cars in the

> newly

> > expanded zone should be getting relief from

> daily

> > use charges from October.

> > If you can?t buy fuel, you can?t be polluting

> the

> > zone, right ? 🤣

> I believe you only pay the charge when you drive

> the car, not when it sits unused

[malumbu]

Interesting what short memories we have. The Beeb referred to the last fuel crisis being in 2000. Labour has similarly forgotten that there were three further short term ones in the 00s, probably better handled that this one.

2005 was due to the resumption of fuel protests, far better managed by the authorities than in 2000.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/sep/13/politics.oil

Later under Brown there was again threats of fuel protests (funny how it doesn't happen under a Tory government)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/drivers-panic-fuels-shortages-petrol-pumps-5347824.html

And in between we had a refinery fire, whilst another refinery was undergoing annual maintenance, which again caused a brief blip. Sadly can't find links to that one.

The obvious difference was that many could still remember 2000 and the disruption seen then, and in handling this it was trade and consumer organisations that fronted the media campaign not the PM as is now. Blair would of course not have been seen as a good spokesperson, but give him credit for how he spoke following 7/7 (ignoring his role in increased security risk to the UK from Islamic fundamentalists).

[wordsworth]

These sort of threads are the problem. Obviously.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

malumbu Wrote:

----------------------------------------------

> Later under Brown there was again threats of fuel

> protests (funny how it doesn't happen under a Tory

> government)

>

> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dri

> vers-panic-fuels-shortages-petrol-pumps-5347824.ht

> ml

Not really that strange tbf - Lib Dems and Tories abandoned the fuel duty escalator.

https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/fuel-duties/

[malumbu]

Blair abandoned the fuel duty escalator in 1999, and then suspended rises in fuel duty, which has been the story ever since. The point about 'surprise' that there had been no protests under Tory governments, was intended to be ironic as groups such as the Tax Payers Alliance, Fair Fuel UK etc are not great fans of Labour governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_Price_Escalator

Worth a look at Fair Fuel UK - it reminds me of some of the discussions elsewhere on the Forum, and I hope that I can post this sort of thing on the Lounge. "We want clean air but not at the expense of limiting our rights to drive"

https://www.fairfueluk.com/

Back to fuel availability, I hear some saying they have to fill up for the school run and the like. And I think, really? How far do you have to travel? Are there not other options, or even getting a lift with another parent??

And those who urgently need fuel for example for care duties, it is not beyond the wit of filling stations to allow some to jump the queue. There was many businesses who were happy to give freebies, or reduce prices of front line workers during lockdown. OK so definitely not infalable, I'm sure I could knock up some social services IDs, but an idea.

I'm sure that I am being naive.... Probably just you and I interested DKH!

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

malumbu Wrote:

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> it is not beyond the wit of filling

> stations to allow some to jump the queue.

If I'm making less than a living wage in a petrol station, there's fuck all chance I'm going to wade into a queue of angry members of the public and start interrogating them about whether they deserve fuel or not.

This'll all be over in a few days anyway.

[malumbu]

I've seen some of these poorly paid staff manage the queues. And if we remember many shops would open early for key workers during Lockdown 1. That said probably easier to manage early opening of supermarkets in a time of a national pandemic, as compared to angry people who can't get fuel for the school run. Frightens me just thinking about it.

Simplest way is having a blanket limit on fuel purchases - that is a real suggestion - but would need police and security to be there as things would turn nasty. Those that really need a full fuel tank simply queue again.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

malumbu Wrote:

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> I've seen some of these poorly paid staff manage

> the queues.

They have a better work ethic than I do, then! And TBF they've been marshaling queues, not deciding who ought to have fuel and who ought not...

[natty01295]

Everyone - Get on your Bicycles

Because things are getting bad, And riding a bike will help, and Not use the car if you can

[malumbu]

Hmm, thought it would have all blown over by now. A blip should last a few days not a week plus. It would be helpful if the government would share the key stats, they have them all collated for COBR which has to be sitting. They did this for data and projections at key times during the Covid pandemic. If we had an equivalent to Jonathan VT with graphs, showing what would happen if we didn't all rush off and buy fuel, and how quickly the situation would alleviate itself that may have quelled anxiety. The news today that it may be getting worse in London, not better hasn't helped. I expect the heavy traffic on South Circ to Forest Hill was due to Tecos having fuel. A silly place to have a filling station at the best of times

The last Labour government appeared to be better at doing this (sharing data), and sharing planning arrangements too. A new National Risk Assessment was published in 2020, there not being a unrestricted one since 2008 when it was published annually https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/952959/6.6920_CO_CCS_s_National_Risk_Register_2020_11-1-21-FINAL.pdf

Looking back on 2008:

2.68 The Government?s National Emergency Plan for Fuel is designed to prioritise fuel resources in the

event of major disruption to supply. It includes the possibility of rationing supply to retail customers,

and prioritising emergency services and essential service providers. If there is sufficient diesel to supply

emergency services and essential service providers then the surplus will be prioritised to truck stops and

HGV motorway filling stations to help keep supply chains operational.

Can't find the equivalent in the 2020 risk assessment... maybe the PM thought that this risk had gone away (to be fair the 2020 assessment is far broader, and more user friendly language)

I'm seeing this from a fairly privileged position (in terms of knowledge not wealth/education!).

[malumbu]

To continue my discussion on the other thread - PM not being reassuring on the Johnny Marr show this morning:

Asked about a prediction by the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, that shortages of petrol and other goods could last months, to Christmas or beyond, Johnson initially refused to answer. Pressed by Marr, he said: ?Rishi is invariably right. But it depends how you interpret what he said.?

Johnson said the issue was a long-term one, caused largely by the road haulage industry not investing in better pay and conditions and instead relying on the cheaper labour of drivers from Europe, now gone due to Brexit.

For his sake, and Britain?s, now is the time for Boris Johnson to ride off into the sunset

Max Hastings

He did, however, contradict himself in trying to explain what was causing the specific shortages of petrol, saying at first: ?The issue at the forecourts is fundamentally one of supply.? When asked why EU countries had not experienced similar issues, he said it was ?a particular problem to do with demand?.

[KidKruger]

What BoJo is saying is consistently garbage, one would have better sense and less confusion listening to the advice of a cabbage.

[Alan Medic]

If a cabbage ever proffered advice other than 'eat me', I'd be worried. I've yet to meet one who has though.

[malumbu]

As said before Blair was seen to be a toxic brand after his handling of the 2000 fuel protests and neither he or another minister would address the public on future supply shortages leaving it to the industry and consumer experts. Not sure why the Tory party allow the PM to speak to the nation on this, particularly seeing as he got the message wrong this morning, apart from the fact that most people who voted for him don't care what he says, his popularity still remains the same.

I'd like a Tory voter to argue otherwise - I expect it is more big picture, ie we know he is a clown, untrustworthy etc but overall we prefer his party to the others. And he got Brexit done. Sort of. Well not really but you know what I mean.