Petrol stations

[tedfudge]

Probably the weekday cyclists that are the ones filling up their cars ..

I've already told my boss I cant make it into work tonight not sure about Sunday night etc and already 4 others have said the same thing at work... we are all in a company watsapp group and all sent pics of our fuel with fuel lights on and gauge below red...

[tedfudge]

Hope no one on here or members of your families need emergency services over next couple of days as they are reporting vehicles out of petrol etc..

[cactus]

Traffic and a whole row of buses were backed up as far as Dog Kennel Hill when I came home this eve.

Let people queue all night for fuel if they wish, but selfishly blocking the road for all other users just pisses me off.

[sally buying]

Was this petrol queue for the goose green petrol station?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Yep

alice Wrote:

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> So if car use switched to bikes in then

> Bets we?re told how come the queues for petrol are

> so long?

Huh?

[richard tudor]

Was this petrol queue for the goose green petrol station?

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yep

> alice Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So if car use switched to bikes in then

> > Bets we?re told how come the queues for petrol

> are

> > so long?

> Huh?

When I was in the garage yesterday around 1330 waiting to fill up they came out and closed the pump.

How come they have managed to get fully stocked so quickly? What I did notice was the price of petrol had gone from the middle 1.30's the day before to I think 1.48 a litre on this day. Feel sure my memory is correct but could be wrong but I have this figure in my brain.

When this garage first opened many years ago it was the cheapest in the area now it is the dearest only to be used in an emergency. How times have changed.

[Sue]

Surely "they" should be a) rationing petrol and b) giving emergency vehicles and essential workers who need a vehicle to get to work priority?

Is that naive?

[KidKruger]

So is there a shortage of petrol only caused (at least locally) by panic buying / hoarding ?

[Ginster]

I'm very close to Goose Green petrol station and just googled and sadly see it's 24hr. We have had hooting all day and entry to my road frequently blocked by a queue that barely moves. Don't think I'll get much sleep tonight as hooting still going now gone 10.30pm!!!

Sad to think of emergency vehicles not being able to fill up. What are the media going to post next to cause the next panic issue.....

[tedfudge]

Richard Tudor...

When I went to the goose green petrol station yesterday they only had diesel the put those yellow plastic covers over the unleaded pumps.... like you said theres no way they would get fully stocked up that quickly when there are far bigger petrol stations needing fuel... also I think you are right about the price i believe it was around 136.9 .. i also use them as an emergency as they are expensive ...

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

There's not much money in selling petrol any more - not many other products where people pay attention to the price down to the penny and will drive half an hour out of their way to save peanuta. it's more a lure to get people through the door and sell people coffee, Red Bull and groceries. Place like Goose Green that has expensive property and not much store space? They'll need to charge a but extra just to keep afloat.

[malumbu]

Trouble is you label people who are rushing to the pumps as idiots, yet this is a sizable part of the population. I could label those of you who voted to leave the EU as idiots, but I don't. By all means share your views but what benefit does is it to use emotive terms such as idiots? You silly Billy's.

I'd be really interested in how you discourage such 'idiotic' behaviour. When for a sizeable many panic buying is a totally rational thing to do, I'm alright Jack.

[hpsaucey]

tedfudge Wrote:

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> Probably the weekday cyclists that are the ones

> filling up their cars ..

?????

HP

[DuncanW]

Still queueing now all the way back to the station.

This is at 12:45 am

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

malumbu Wrote:

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> I could label those of you who voted

> to leave the EU as idiots, but I don't. I mean, you just did, in a way!

[Spartacus]

The curious question is : in normal times when one or two petrol stations run dry for what ever reason , drivers are mildly frustrated but don't panic buy as a result

This may happen at various places across the country in any given day.

However at the moment this exact scenario occurred and the media picked up on it then poured fuel in the fire.

The question is, if the media hadn't mentioned it,would there still be panic or would there be just a few places in each area shut and drivers being mildly inconvenienced ?

[malumbu]

White flag here, I was using humour, to say that we should not be demonising people for queuing for fuel. If you are desperate you will join the queue, irrespective of the implications (were people getting fines for queuing on the bus lane yesterday on the South Circ yeseterday?).

How essential your purchase is, is highly subjective. It is a natural instinct to hoard for you and your family in times of shortage. How many people rushed to buy toilet rolls during lock down 1 when they heard they were available through social media/WhatApp? Whether they had a good supply or not. In the 80s if you were queuing for bread in a Moscow shop would you say I'll just have one loaf and hope they have some tomorrow or would you buy a whole freezer's worth?

This situation is highly frustrating to those that have to use their vehicle and totally avoidable. This is a blip, we've seen it before, it will sort itself out shortly. Supply chains operate on 'just in time' and don't want loads of stock in storage at a retail site. Market forces mean that the number of filling stations has declined by about 60% in the last 30 years, exacerbating this blip.

But it's fine for me to sit back and not rush out, as I don't need fuel and can easily ride it out. Many are not in that fortunate position.

Anyway, DKH, there was a centre forward in the 60s who said to the ref at half time, what would you do if I called you a barstool. The ref replied, well I'd send you off Mr Centre Forward. OK says the footballer, what would happen if I think you are a barstool? Well Mr Centre Forward, you can think whatever you want. Thank you referee, I think you are a barstool.

[first mate]

Malumbu,

Agree with you. We need everyone to take a step back and let those that really, really need fuel have priority.

I think people are generally feeling insecure and unsure what the future holds and survival instinct kicks in.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

malumbu Wrote:

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> In the 80s if you were queuing for

> bread in a Moscow shop would you say I'll just

> have one loaf and hope they have some tomorrow or

> would you buy a whole freezer's worth?

You would not have been allowed to buy a freezerful of bread (and neither would it have been likely that you owned a freezer).

There are only a handful of ways you can ration scarce goods:

- by time - whoever has the most time to sit around in queues will get the goods.

- by need - whoever needs it most should get it - but we have no time to build a system for working this out.

- by money - by increasing the cost to reduce short term demand. There would be no queues if petrol was a tenner a litre!

It's actually the last method that would probably be best, quickest and fairest in the short term: it could be done overnight. It would force the idiots to reconsider whether they actually need the petrol (in the toilet paper panic, people moaned about paying 10p extra for a nEcEsSiTy). It would increase the cost for people that really need fuel but at least they would be guaranteed of supply without waiting for hours.

In fact what will actually happen is that idiots will disrupt everyone else for a short period by bringing their normal purchases forward a couple of weeks, and then in a couple of weeks there will be a dip in demand as people consume their stockpile - exactly like the toilet paper affair.

Just because everyone buys 3 pints in the 10 minutes before closing time, it doesn't mean there's a shortage of beer...

[geh]

'fairest', by penalising those who can least afford to shoulder such a price increase - a wonderful if unintentional illustration of some of what is wrong in our society!

[malumbu]

Not that I am an economist but I know something about this. Increasing costs of private car use does not necessarily equate with reduced use - so increased fuel price at a time of shortage may not quell panic buying. Here's some of the evidence but not an easy read, and I could not cut and paste some succinct findings from it - be my guest!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/395119/road-traffic-demand-elasticities.pdf

If you restict purchases by amount, the time factor does come into it, as those who are most desperate (for real or perceived reasons) will go round the block and queue again. This would only be introduced I expect, in a proper time of crisis due to severe loss of production/refining, or say a tanker driver strike.

I doubt whether fuel rationing, as in the last war, or thought about in the early 70s, is a liklihood.

On deliveries, as smiley untrustable man (SUM) said this morning on the Jonny Marry programme, there is not a large shortage of tanker drivers. It is relatively well paid job, particularly compared to other hauliers. SUM seemed to say that other hauliers salaries would increase, which appears to be rather interventionist from a Tory government, and of course that will add to the costs of our food and other products. A Brexit benefit (sorry couldn't help myself).

The beer analogy is a good one. In New Zealand when they only served beer after work for an hour, drunkenness and domestic violence rocketed. Beer was being served in a high pressure hose the demand from drinkers being so high. In Scotland that is why they liberalised licensing laws long before England.

[Sally Eva]

that link doesn't work for me

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not that I am an economist but I know something

> about this. Increasing costs of private car use

> does not necessarily equate with reduced use - so

> increased fuel price at a time of shortage may not

> quell panic buying.

The type of panic buying of petrol we have seen is discretionary and therefore highly price elastic - people are bringing forward their fuel purchases based on fear rather than actual consumption. The aggregate demand over the course of a month hasn't changed at all and in reality supply hadn't been reduced much either. A handful of petrol stations running a bit low on some types of fuel is what triggered this "crisis".

A short term surcharge would soon shake out the people who really need fuel for today from the people panic buying - and that's all we need to even out turnaround at petrol stations. This is a 2-3 week problem.

BTW that study is about the impact fuel prices (and other things) have on demand for roads. It's not about the impact fuel price have on demand for fuel.

> fairest', by penalising those who can least afford to shoulder such a price increase - a wonderful if unintentional illustration of some of what is wrong in our society!

Right now we have a situation in which the least wealthy who really need petrol for work either don't get it or wait hours unnecessarily because of the actions of a few. That's not fair either.

[KidKruger]

There is no petrol shortage.

The transport minister said so.

No fuel shortage, says transport secretary https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58696999

[malumbu]

The last panic was in the late 00s following a refinery fire - I expect that another refinery was down due to annual maintenance. Prices went up due to the shortage, but people still rushed to the filling stations. Prices came down a week or two later, after demand had subsided and refinery capacity restored. Not sure how much of a price hike you need to quell short term demand.