Cyclists BEWARE - Sainsbury's Dulwich

[AndrewFFF]

I had my bike wheel stolen from my bike yesterday afternoon between 1 & 1.30pm. Sainsbury's were less than helpful and there are no CCTV cameras trained on their Cycle Rack. I spoke to another cyclist who had her bike nicked from exactly the same spot last December. Police recommended that they did something about the cameras yet nothing was done. Anyone recommend where to take this as I'm now ?130 out of pocket? Cleary Sainsbury's don't give a toss about their cycling customers.

[StraferJack]

" Sainsbury's were less than helpful " - why should they be? If you have your bike nicked from outside a shop on LL do you expect them to do anything? The council? Who?

"Anyone recommend where to take this" - where do you want to take it? You were robbed. Could happen anywhere. It's galling and upsetting but apart from your insurance that's it really.

"Sainsbury's don't give a toss about their cycling customers." - again, why should they? Do you honestly think when you park up in a supermarket car park you have entered some special crime-free zone?

Sainsury's exist to sell you things - if they sell you something dodgy then you can complain about them. The car park is an add-on perk you use at your own risk

But hey, you won't be the first to start your own special thread about you and Sainsbury's and you won't be the last

[Lowlander]

Did you check for cameras and theft statistics *before* you left your bike? Did you have a decent lock costing at least ?50?

Sorry to hear about your loss, but you have to realise the world won't stop for you.

I've had several bikes stolen (not all in London either!) and no-one will care much, although venting steam on a public forum helps a little. Invest in a decent lock (at least ?50), or a cheap bike.

[Cyclemonkey]

Lowlander - do you check for CCTV and crime statisits everytime and every place you park your car? what an idiotic thing to say.

I'm not expert but surely Sainsburys provide the car park as a facility for their customers and you would think therefore they would have some interest in providing a safe and secure environment for their customers.

[minder]

Welcome to the EDF Andrew and thanks for making us aware of what happened to your bike. It could have happened to a lot more cyclists at Sainsburys, so it's a valid post. Sainsburys should get their CCTV situation sorted out.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think people are being a little harsh. Yes the OP should have locked both wheels. Yes it is good advice to use gold standard locks. But it would also cost Sainsburrys nothing to perhaps position their security desk nearer to the entrance or improve CCTV coverage - some would see that as good customer relations, esp in light of the number of thefts and attempted thefts that occur from time to time in that car park.

The OP has has a rubbish enough day losing his cycle wheel as it is, without added harshness from us lot on this forum.

[pommie]

DJKIllaQueen

Do you think by having the security desk nearer to the entrance will mean less thefts? Do you think the security men have time to watch the car park rather than in store? I believe the security men have no control over the car parks, security for the car park is run by a completely different company to those inside the store

[Loz]

Most cyclists can barely carry a pint of milk and a couple of bananas. Sainsburys have no interest in them.

[tiddles]

I believe that sainsbury's have no interest in what happens outside their shop, even though that car park is for the sole use of people shopping there. I think it is fair that to expect there to be some sort of CCTV footage for the protection of customers. bottom line is, ???

Straferjack you say that shops on LL are not responsible for what happens outside, quite right, as this is a street, however the car park is perceived (perhaps wrongly) to be part and parcel of the sainsbury's superstore.

[AndrewFFF]

To answer your points:

Straferjack - I posted partly because I was annoyed, partly by Sainsbury's attitude but most importantly to warn people that there is clearly a problem there. The post has had 500 views so now (I guess) 500+ however many people they tell will be aware there's an issue.

Lowlander - Yes I checked for cameras and theft statistics *before* I left my bike. I always carry out a full risk assessment before I go anywhere. Sometime the risks prove statistically unacceptable so I don't bother going out.

minder - Thanks for the welcome and your reply

DJKillaQueen - Fair point as yes my back wheel was unlocked but the rest of the bike was securely locked with a decent lock

pommie - The security team are employed by Sainsbury's and if it is a different company it still comes down to their responsibility. It is the one area of the car park not covered by CCTV so in effect a blind spot. Security know it?s a problem; they told me so.

Loz - The loss is the same whether I buy one item or bags of shopping. I do both; sometimes with and sometimes without the bike.

tiddles - Agreed as ultimately it comes down to a commercial decision.

I wanted to see what the view was from the good citizens on the EDF. The bottom line is that it isn't about whether I'm a cyclist; it is about a very large retailer taking a complaint seriously and acting responsibly. They didn't.

[reddulwich]

In defence of AndrewFFF it might actually be wise for Sainsburys to have some cameras pointing back towards the store (and where the cycle racks are) - if someone comes running out having nicked something they can get them on camera. Pretty stupid for that reason, never mind it would also cover the racks.

[tiddles]

thank you andrew FFF for alerting us to this. I am a bike user, but have a very normal single lock which I use when popping in and out of shops. Agree with reddulwich, cameras would be good idea, and wouldn't it be nice if we got the impression that sainsbury's did actually care?

[edw]

From a legal point of view I expect it's safer for Sainsbury's to adopt an "all items left at your own risk" attitude. If they do anything that can be interpreted as assuming responsibility for customers' bikes (eg installing cameras) then they I wouldn't be surprised if they risk legal action when crimes occur.

[dogfenneldill]

Yup, thanks AndrewFFF. I park my bike at Sainsbury's a lot whilst spending my hard earned cash there, so this is useful to know. Sainsbury's ought to give a toss as this is not just about bike users but the general security of their car park. Even without cameras, better lighting right outside the main entrance could help deter would-be tea leafs.

[DJKillaQueen]

The security guards most of the time are doing nothing. The one that stands behind the little desk just off the entrance is usually not even looking at shoppers and only comes to life if the alarm goes off when someone walks through it, so yes I do think they have time to do more 'security' type work.

I think you make a fair point edw, but customer relations are an important part of business aren't they? Or are some businesses just so big that it doesn't matter? Either way Sainsburrys can more than afford to add to existing CCTV, and are more than capable of making it available to Police if required.

[HannahG]

Thank you again for making us aware of this issue. I cannot believe some of the abusive comments that are written when someone is clearly just trying to help out the local population. Why can't people be positive and thankful and not critical and plain rude?! As a cyclist myself I finished a 14 hour shift to discover that despite buying a ?50 pund lock and locking both my wheels, someone had stolen my bike seat (using an allen key) so some things are unavoidable!

[StraferJack]

Mr Rude here

My comments were borne out of the fact that an already existing thread about thefts from Sainsbury's was not 2 inches away from the one that Andrew started himself. That other thread has multiple instances of problems in that car partk and is a useful awareness thread. Starting new threads just dilutes the message, and clutters up the forum

Secondly, this thread was started with a post that had no mention of awareness but was all about "what am I supposed to now? ME?? Why won't Sainsury's fix the world??"

I paraphrase obviously.

I have (believe it or not) every sympathy with anyone (Andrew included) who has their bike (or car/phone/whatever) stolen

I also undertsand venting can help

I just don't understand why people think Sainsbury's should be doing anything about this. People use spaces like they use locker-spaces - at their own risk. Moving security guards/desks and installing a few more CCTV cameras is security theatre and not much else

If you park in the car park there, be as cautious as you would parking anywhere else - that's it really

[benmorg]

AndrewFFF Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I had my bike wheel stolen from my bike yesterday

> afternoon between 1 & 1.30pm. Sainsbury's were

> less than helpful and there are no CCTV cameras

> trained on their Cycle Rack. I spoke to another

> cyclist who had her bike nicked from exactly the

> same spot last December. Police recommended that

> they did something about the cameras yet nothing

> was done. Anyone recommend where to take this as

> I'm now ?130 out of pocket? Cleary Sainsbury's

> don't give a toss about their cycling customers.

If you have quick-release levers on your wheels, get them replaced with Allen key bolts. Then you can use a single (good) lock.

[pommie]

well i know in my local store there is a security hut in the car park where the security men who look after the car park are based. They are nothing to do with the store security and vice versa. The store security are there purely for the store (not outside)

[StraferJack]

"Secondly, this thread was started with a post that had no mention of awareness "

My mistake - the subject itself was (rather Hammer Horror style) "Cyclists BEWARE"

But I maintain that the self-security aspect is the important bit, not the location of the car park

[StraferJack]

wider discussion around stores generally here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/sainsburys-car-park-stolen-bike.71386/

[Lowlander]

AndrewFFF Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

........

> Lowlander - Yes I checked for cameras and theft

> statistics *before* I left my bike. I always carry

> out a full risk assessment before I go anywhere.

> Sometime the risks prove statistically

> unacceptable so I don't bother going out.

>.........

> I wanted to see what the view was from the good

> citizens on the EDF. The bottom line is that it

> isn't about whether I'm a cyclist; it is about a

> very large retailer taking a complaint seriously

> and acting responsibly. They didn't.

So what is the story with the cameras? If you have a search on this forum you'll find people have been mugged and worse in that car park, so your loss is not high on their list of priorities.

I've had a locked bike nicked from the basement of my employer in the City (somehow past CCTV, two security guards and locked doors), so I know how you feel. Incidentally the CCTV showed someone in a cap wheeling the bike out, so no chance of even a vague ID. Getting angry isn't going to change anything, you need to be a little more constructive though.

[LondonMix]

Thanks for the warning. Perhaps, if enough people say something to Sainsbury as a result of this thread, they will consider it?s in their interest to install CCTV to keep customers happy. Every business wants their customers to feel safe and secure including when arriving and leaving the shop even if they don't have a specific legal obligation to do so.

This, crap happens, get insurance attitude bothers me. It's totally understandable to be outraged when someone steals your stuff and we as a community should avtively work on measures to keep the area as safe as possible.

[Lowlander]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for the warning. Perhaps, if enough people

> say something to Sainsbury as a result of this

> thread, they will consider it?s in their interest

> to install CCTV to keep customers happy. Every

> business wants their customers to feel safe and

> secure including when arriving and leaving the

> shop even if they don't have a specific legal

> obligation to do so.

>

> This, crap happens, get insurance attitude bothers

> me. It's totally understandable to be outraged

> when someone steals your stuff and we as a

> community should avtively work on measures to keep

> the area as safe as possible.

? Who's recommended insurance? That's a complete waste of money unless you've got a ?1000 racer.

You want advice? Contact the LCC (of which I'm a fully paid up member of btw), formally write a nice letter to Sainsbury's Head Office, contact James Barber local councillor on here, the safer neighbourhood team, post a nice thread on this forum.

Writing an outraged post states that Sainsbury's don't care is a bit naff considering the OP hasn't disclosed the extent of his or her communications with them. Was it just a rant to the in-store customer service desk, or correspondence with their chief executive? My bet is on the former. Happy to lose that bet.

[LondonMix]

Insurance wasn't mentioned in this thread as such but in general regarding local thefts. I get that the OP was having a bit of a rant but I tend to cut recent victims of crime a bit of slack when they want to let off steam. Some of the responses on the thread have been overy harsh.

I think the warning was helpful, I think the moan the OP was having is a natural response, and I think we should try to put pressure on Sainsbury to increase security in the parking lot for all of our benefit.