The London Flag

[KidKruger]

Interesting proposition.

Let the brexit voting provinces sort out their own cash flows.

Meanwhile we get back into Europe and carry on BAU.

Make your bed, etc..

[Nigello]

Clair his alter ego is his expression of himself in part, of course it contrives to shock and create discussion, but it shouldn?t render him or his work redundant, unlike Cath?s ironing board covers etc. And tell me, do you think this ?panto? he?s been engaged in has added to or diminished the cause of gender politics? I?d say it?s given a lot of people the courage to be themselves, and for the world around them to accept them easier, in general.

It did but then teh tide turned and more and more women are concerned about the effects on panto-women (eg. drag) on the idea of what is a woman. Times and mores change, so what was once to be feted and what once titillated and was said to "encourage debate" is now not so universally accepted. I know that Grayson's alter-ego is part of his art, but Izzard's donning of lippy and stilettos and woman-facing is, I think, much less admired these days.

[KidKruger]

I?m not sure Grayson?s cross-dressing is part of his art, he?s a transvestite.

Transvestites are cross-dressers.

[Seabag]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Clair his alter ego is his expression of himself

> in part, of course it contrives to shock and

> create discussion, but it shouldn?t render him or

> his work redundant, unlike Cath?s ironing board

> covers etc. And tell me, do you think this ?panto?

> he?s been engaged in has added to or diminished

> the cause of gender politics? I?d say it?s given a

> lot of people the courage to be themselves, and

> for the world around them to accept them easier,

> in general.

>

> It did but then teh tide turned and more and more

> women are concerned about the effects on

> panto-women (eg. drag) on the idea of what is a

> woman. Times and mores change, so what was once to

> be feted and what once titillated and was said to

> "encourage debate" is now not so universally

> accepted. I know that Grayson's alter-ego is part

> of his art, but Izzard's donning of lippy and

> stilettos and woman-facing is, I think, much less

> admired these days.

I?m not sure Perry is drag, or his will is to ?titillate? (and phrasing like that is disparaging, but you know that, but you shoehorn it in none the less) his expression isn?t based around that scene. And what are you saying, that drag is over?

And conflating Izzard and Perry isn?t going to add anything to the discussion, Izzards thing is his own. Why not start a subjective thread on it if it helps further the discussion on the matters of attire and attitudes, present and past.

So, back to the flag, and the new London Union or United territory.

[malumbu]

Hmm, I don't think cross dressing exists. People can wear what they want - unless functional like a jock strap or a bra, and even then it is not wrong, just different. The term transvestite is from the last millennium, and/or the Rocky Horror Show.

[malumbu]

And we can't be London United as that is a bus company and was a tram company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_United_Tramways

[Nigello]

Drag is DEFINITELY over. It is total overkill - everything is ICONIC or YAAASS KWEEEN. It has been on the wane for a while. Drag kings, though, are worth a look, but because it is women taking off men, rather then men taking off women, they rarely get a look in - sexism even permeates gender bending!

The very fact that Seabag seeks to burnish right-on creds by highlighting my oh-so-offensive world "titillating" when referring to my take on the adoption of what once was a subversive artform by Grayson P shows just how far drag has become mainstream. (Titillating is totally appropriate because Perry would not had the coverage and fame he has without the knowing and semi-ironic Aunt Sally schtick he knew would appeal to the arty set. Likewise Izzard, who thinks he can just see himself and be seen as a woman just by donning an exaggerated garb, was very much feted and applauded for his X-dressing as well as his comedy.)

Divine was a good example of good drag, as was RuPaul when he lived in the Meatpacking District of NYC in the early/mid eighties. Danny LaRue, Stanley Baxter and even Les Dawson were comedy gold in a way the new wave couldn't even begin to hope to aspire.

And some men do get sexual thrills from dressing up in women's clothes, which is totally fair enough and if you are into that, go for it.

So, back on topic, no flag from anyone, including Grayson P.

[Seabag]

I think Nige is definitely over tbf

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Divine was a good example of good drag, as was

> RuPaul when he lived in the Meatpacking District

> of NYC in the early/mid eighties

Oh you liked RuPaul in the 80s? That's nice. I preferred his earlier work in Atlanta before he got popular.

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmm, I don't think cross dressing exists. People

> can wear what they want - unless functional like a

> jock strap or a bra, and even then it is not

> wrong, just different. The term transvestite is

> from the last millennium, and/or the Rocky Horror

> Show.

;)

Try buying a 3 button suit jacket ;)

[Seabag]

Maybe the flag can be interactive, and have a man & woman holding hands, on top of their nakedness we can stick (like Velcro) interchangeable clothes, like those cut out magazines my sister used to get. Then each character can be ?transvested? to suit.

I?d also say we have an outline in stitch of all the London Borough?s with a gold threaded embroidered line of the Thames running through it, on top of this the figures with their interchangeable costumes.

Actually, it?d be good to have a few figures as some may wish to have the same gender, seeing as this is about unity and choice.

What colour the figures tho? Green, purple, lilac?