How will the ULEZ be enforced in ED?

[Lowlander]

https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/mayors-ultra-low-emission-zone-london

"You will not be charged for a non-compliant vehicle parked in the zone on days you don?t drive it."

[Abe_froeman]

A parked car has no emissions.

"When to pay

If you drive within the zone, you'll have to pay by midnight on the third day following the journey. "

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-payments

[Lowlander]

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-where-and-when?intcmp=54312

"...if you are parked within the zone but don't drive, you don't need to pay the ULEZ charge."

[Sue]

Thanks both. I need to rethink my car strategy now!

So if you start in the zone, then drive out of it, but drive back in within the same day, are you charged once or twice?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Once. It's not a toll payable each time you cross the boundary. Drive for 30 seconds or 23 hours - cross the boundary once or fifty times - its all one charge. Same as existing congestion charge.

[Sue]

Thanks DKH.

Glad I found this out before I did something irrevocable (like buy another car) :))

[ed26]

Surely the best option is to sign up for auto-pay, so you pay the ULEZ fee if you pass a ULEZ camera on your journey. And if you don't pass a camera, you don't pay the charge, and you're not doing anything wrong.

[Sue]

ed26 Wrote:

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> Surely the best option is to sign up for auto-pay,

> so you pay the ULEZ fee if you pass a ULEZ camera

> on your journey. And if you don't pass a camera,

> you don't pay the charge, and you're not doing

> anything wrong.

Good idea. I haven't researched it all yet.

[edbloke]

I barely use my old car, but it?s still useful to have occasionally, so that?s our plan.

Autopay and take the hit if caught when we use it, rather than fork out for a replacement car.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Lowlander Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/p

> ollution-and-air-quality/mayors-ultra-low-emission

> -zone-london

>

> "You will not be charged for a non-compliant

> vehicle parked in the zone on days you don?t drive

> it."

Thanks for pointing this out Lowlander, I hadn?t realised that was how it works.

[lameduck]

what is autopay?

do you leave them your debit details.

and its hit and miss with the cameras

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Yes - you enter your details on the TFL website and then any time you enter the ULEZ and or Congestion Charge zone, they automatically bill your bank card. It saves you the hassle of remembering to log in/call up and pay every time.

[James Barber]

A neighbour has had a letter telling them you have a non complaint car and that UELZ is coming.

SO I suspect it will be ANPRS camera enforcement and wont be just boundary entry or exit, and a little bit like the TV licensing people saying we know you have a non ULEZ complaint vehicle. So expect investigators who may record if a non complaint vehicles is parked in different places and no charge paid.

[Jason painter]

I was working in marmora re on Friday when an electric van drove slowly up the road, it had a camera on each corner and had Southwark council markings. I can only assume it was registering number plates.

[Jacqui5254]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A neighbour has had a letter telling them you have

> a non complaint car and that UELZ is coming.

> SO I suspect it will be ANPRS camera enforcement

> and wont be just boundary entry or exit, and a

> little bit like the TV licensing people saying we

> know you have a non ULEZ complaint vehicle. So

> expect investigators who may record if a non

> complaint vehicles is parked in different places

> and no charge paid.

So, James are you saying that if, for example, I move my car from the next street to be near to my flat they will charge me ?11.50 each time? Cross-referencing it with any recent journeys paid for?

I bought my car after the Government said diesel was better. I have to keep it for rare journeys. But current issues with reduced parking, builders vans, school parents drop-offs mean that we often have to park a long way from our home.

To think that people will feel persecuted in this way is unbelievable.

[KidKruger]

I think it?s totally believable that people will feel persecuted !

[Jacqui5254]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it?s totally believable that people will

> feel persecuted !

I should have said 'be'!!

[Penguin68]

SO I suspect it will be ANPRS camera enforcement and wont be just boundary entry or exit, and a little bit like the TV licensing people saying we know you have a non ULEZ complaint vehicle. So expect investigators who may record if a non complaint vehicles is parked in different places and no charge paid.

There may well be snap inspections on some roads, but I very much doubt that there will be continuous survey of local movements - Southwark simply isn't resourced for this, and does not get any direct income from the scheme anyway, so far as I can judge, or receive the fines. Yes, there will be fixed cameras picking up movement, but again other than at boundaries (ULEZ or Congestion Charge) there will not be many, and most will be on arterial routes, for obvious reasons. Moving your non-compliant car around local roads to re-park will almost certainly be risk free, in my view, and registering for automatic charging (should you be noticed) will obviate punitive fines. I believe that the majority of those who will pay will be leaving or coming into the area to/ from outside (where they will be caught) - moving into the inner congestion charge area or traveling on the major A routes. Of course, as we live on the edge of the ULEZ charging zone 'very local' movements for many will in fact be chargeable, whereas for those much deeper in to the zone they probably, in effect, won't be.

[malumbu]

It feels as though many of you are like Rip Van Winkel and have slept through the last few years. The ULEZ and likely extension were announced by the previous Mayor, at a Guildhall event in 2015 - https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/ultra-low-emission-zone I was there, and it has been over six years coming.

It was a surprisingly interventionist thing for a Tory Mayor but essentially a pot shot at the Cameron government who he considered should be supporting Low Emission Zones, at a time when air quality was lower priority/profile predating the Supreme Court taking government to task and the VW diselgate scandal. That said meeting European air quality standards has been a manifesto commitment for the last few governments. Labour would have consulted on a national Low Emission Zone, DfT and Treasury opposed this under the coalition, sad that the Lib Dems didn't have more influence here.

The current Mayor brought the scheme forward, and the extension to within the Circulars. There has been extensive consultation on both the into of the central scheme and the extension and I got a leaflet through the post a few months ago. Most shouldn't have an excuse for not knowing this was coming months ago and deciding what to do about it.

We've had ANPR enforced schemes (congestion charge, Outer London LEZ for heavy vehicles and inner ULEZ) for some time so it is pretty proven technology.

I'd love to see evidence that successive government's policies of reduced Excise Duty was actually an explicit announcement that consumers had to purchase diesel vehicles. I've never found any - one of the government chief scientist spoke about this but faith was put into effective emission controls which failed in part as manufacturers knew ways around this. Perhaps we should consider manufacturers like the tobacco industry in the 50s, but I am digressing.

The decision to keep an older car, buy a newer one, shift to bikes/public transport/car sharing etc is a mix of a financial, convenience and emotional one.

Doing low mileage can be seen as either not a good economic case to keep a car, or I am prepared to pay a few hundred quid extra due to the convenience (real or perceived). I don't buy the "I need it just in case I have to rush to A&E) as there will always be a helpful neighbour, taxi, or push comes to shove an ambulance.

Most of those doing larger mileages and regular journeys will no doubt have already upgraded to a newer car or use a lease scheme. I expect most of the Chelsea tractors that many hate/consider an unnecessary indulgence (and not afraid to include me) are leased.

Final point is I don't understand why people would routinely drive to Dulwich park/court lane as it is so near (there will always be exceptions) - perhaps I read this on the anti LTN thread, some threads seem to blend into one.

[lameduck]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes - you enter your details on the TFL website

> and then any time you enter the ULEZ and or

> Congestion Charge zone, they automatically bill

> your bank card. It saves you the hassle of

> remembering to log in/call up and pay every time.

thank you for explaining that to me Dogkennelhillbilly

[Abe_froeman]

If you find a route where autopay is not triggered by a camera for a local journey,. it would be best to make sure your sat nav / gps is switched off when using it so that google / waze etc don't tip off TFL by accident to a popular fee free route.

[first mate]

Malambu said:

" I don't buy the "I need it just in case I have to rush to A&E) as there will always be a helpful neighbour, taxi, or push comes to shove an ambulance".

Absolute rubbish!

[Abe_froeman]

Surely you have a neighbour who will take you there on a cargo bike?

[Lowlander]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It feels as though many of you are like Rip Van

> Winkel and have slept through the last few years.

> The ULEZ and likely extension were announced by

> the previous Mayor, at a Guildhall event in 2015 -

> https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/u

> ltra-low-emission-zone I was there, and it has

> been over six years coming.

>

> It was a surprisingly interventionist thing for a

> Tory Mayor but essentially a pot shot at the

> Cameron government who he considered should be

> supporting Low Emission Zones, at a time when air

> quality was lower priority/profile predating the

> Supreme Court taking government to task and the VW

> diselgate scandal. That said meeting European air

> quality standards has been a manifesto commitment

> for the last few governments. Labour would have

> consulted on a national Low Emission Zone, DfT and

> Treasury opposed this under the coalition, sad

> that the Lib Dems didn't have more influence

> here.

>

> The current Mayor brought the scheme forward, and

> the extension to within the Circulars. There has

> been extensive consultation on both the into of

> the central scheme and the extension and I got a

> leaflet through the post a few months ago. Most

> shouldn't have an excuse for not knowing this was

> coming months ago and deciding what to do about

> it.

>

> We've had ANPR enforced schemes (congestion

> charge, Outer London LEZ for heavy vehicles and

> inner ULEZ) for some time so it is pretty proven

> technology.

>

> I'd love to see evidence that successive

> government's policies of reduced Excise Duty was

> actually an explicit announcement that consumers

> had to purchase diesel vehicles. I've never found

> any - one of the government chief scientist spoke

> about this but faith was put into effective

> emission controls which failed in part as

> manufacturers knew ways around this. Perhaps we

> should consider manufacturers like the tobacco

> industry in the 50s, but I am digressing.

>

> The decision to keep an older car, buy a newer

> one, shift to bikes/public transport/car sharing

> etc is a mix of a financial, convenience and

> emotional one.

>

> Doing low mileage can be seen as either not a good

> economic case to keep a car, or I am prepared to

> pay a few hundred quid extra due to the

> convenience (real or perceived). I don't buy the

> "I need it just in case I have to rush to A&E) as

> there will always be a helpful neighbour, taxi, or

> push comes to shove an ambulance.

>

> Most of those doing larger mileages and regular

> journeys will no doubt have already upgraded to a

> newer car or use a lease scheme. I expect most of

> the Chelsea tractors that many hate/consider an

> unnecessary indulgence (and not afraid to include

> me) are leased.

>

> Final point is I don't understand why people would

> routinely drive to Dulwich park/court lane as it

> is so near (there will always be exceptions) -

> perhaps I read this on the anti LTN thread, some

> threads seem to blend into one.

Spot on.

[Lowlander]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Malambu said:

>

> " I don't buy the "I need it just in case I have

> to rush to A&E) as there will always be a helpful

> neighbour, taxi, or push comes to shove an

> ambulance".

>

> Absolute rubbish!

how?