Police harassment

[hedgehog]

Possibly I fit a certain profile but I am a law-abiding citizen who has just been at the receiving end of abuse of office by two police officers.

Yesterday at 18:38 my doorbell rang. I opened the door to find a pair of policemen, one of whom immediately stepped forward and put his face within 12" of mine.

He (No 1)inquired "John Smith??" [[ I have substituted the name John Smith for the name he enquired about]]

I asked him to step back because he was really in my face and he didnt have a mask. It was as though he wanted anyone else in the house to see and hear what he had to say.

When he stepped back, I responded with "No"

He then asked "Are you John Smith?". I responded with "no".

His companion (No 2) asked, in an intolerant fashion, "Are you John Smith?" I again responded "No"

No 1- Are you sure you are not John Smith? I responded "No"

No 2- Can you prove you are not John Smith? My response "Yes, but I do not have to."

No 1- You must provide identification when asked. My response "No, I don't have to"

No 2 - Yes, you must provide proof of identity when asked. My response "No, I don't. I think there is some mix up here"

No 1- Do you know John Smith? My response - "No"

They kept on in this accusatory manner without mentioning what the matter was about and demanding if I knew John Smith. When I had enough I said to them...

"Look, you come to my house and ring the door bell. I open the door and you imply that I am someone called John Smith. I have repeatedly to you I am not him. I do not know him. You have repeatedly asked to prove I am not him. Under the law I am not obliged to carry or provide you with any ID. I am at my home. If I was out on the street even then I am not obliged to provide ID if you ask for it. But you come to my home a harass me about the identity of another person whom I do not know. If you want to know who lives here, golook up the Electoral Register"

Despite that they kept banging on.

I said to them "Your clearly working off incorrect information or somone has put you up to this. So, if you have finished,just get on your way,"

After conversing between muttering between themselves they turned on their heels and left.

They were from Peckham Police station and their IDs are?

PC 2604AS and PC1482AS.

See photo. Background has been erased to obscure the address.

[Blah Blah]

Technically, the law does say that if a Police Officer asks for ID, you must provide it. But they can only do that if they suspect an offence has been committed. Just simply asking for ID without any indication of an alleged offence by you is not the law. You were right to refuse. Police officers literally get just 12 weeks training these days, which is why their understanding of their powers under the law is often so bad. They are supposed to know PACE backwards, but often they don't. They will need a warrant if they want to search your home for any person they suspect of living there.

[hedgehog]

Many thanks for your confirmation. It is not easy to think on one's feet when being confronted on the doorstep by two overly assertive policemen -especially for a frail septuagenarian.

They did not hint at any offence or provide any reason for looking for this other guy but their bullying and intimidation was frankly unacceptable in this day and age. They just assumed I was the other guy and wouldn't let up.

I suspect they were put up to it by s public official with a certain agenda who got their facts wrong.

The two policemen were simply useful,idiots in this case.

Would I be right Councillor?

Edited to remove photos

[first mate]

Hedgehog which ward are you in?

[Earl Aelfheah]

But are you John Smith?

[first mate]

He repeatedly said he isn't. I am interested to know which ward he lives in.

[hedgehog]

Of course I'm not! I don't even know the guy.

They looked rather stupid when I asked if they had checked the Electoral Register.

[hedgehog]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hedgehog which ward are you in?

Yesterday I had a PM msg from another resident in the same ward who suffered in a similar fashion. But in his case the police made accusations. These were instantly rebutted and proven to be false and trumped up. The two useful idiots" in blue left with their tails between their legs but did not offer an apology.

A case may be brought against the elected official who initiated this harassment and so I will decline at this stage to reveal which ward.

[Spartacus]

That's quite an allegation hedgehog or a leap to conclusion, I'm not saying you're wrong or doubting you but if you are going to bring a case forward make sure you have solid evidence.

Police officers are often tasked with visiting the address of people who, for example, have either failed to attend court or skipped bail and all the information they get is a name and address so they aren't expected to confirm the details are correct as they were told to attend a premise. It may be that the person they are looking for has given your address and that's where the confusion lies, or that at sometime in the past the person they are looking for was known to frequent your address (possibly before you moved in) and the police are using old data to find someone.

Sometimes, and it's not a reflection on your actions, just saying who you are and showing a letter, driving licence or other similar proof will stop them from trying to establish if John Smith is there. Remember they are doing their job and stretched massively by demands on them so the happy friendly Bobby who has time for a chat is sadly mostly in our past.

I hope the fact that they went away will mean an end to the situation and you have no more visits of this type but it may be a good suggestion to call up the police station and establish why they came to your address so that if someone has given a false address you can get the record rectified.

[Sally Eva]

You can complain about police behaviour and if you feel you have good cause you should do so.

https://policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints-reviews-and-appeals/make-complaint

[hedgehog]

@Spartacus

Your take on the issue is well balanced and your advice is much appreciated.

You rightly say that they were only doing their job and are they are tasked by others with higher rank. Doubtless there are great demands on their time these days such that they don't devote any time to burglaries. They just issue a crime number for insurance purposes.

A quick check on the electoral register would show who has resided at this family home in recent decades. Similarly, they could have gone to my neighbours and asked who lived here. But no they didnt. After I put a flee in their ears, they just drove off without checking.

Expediency can be no excuse for unprofessional behaviour. Doing it once is tolerable but for them to do something similar to the other person is unacceptable by any standards.

They just turned up and one really got into my face right at the off. There was no mention as to what it was about ie whether it was about motoring, immigration, murder or whatever.

I was seriously angered and offended by their attempts to bully me to deprive me of my rights. That really stuck in my craw.

I have cooled down somewhat now and can look at it more objectively.

[Blah Blah]

I have to disagree Spartacus. Police are expected to show due diligence. PACE clearly outlines when they can ask for ID and the process to that. We do not live in a nation where we are required to carry ID, and it matters when Police behave with an expectation that all they have to do is ask and expect people to comply.

[Spartacus]

You are right Blah Blah, however what I am saying is that by simply showing ID to prove you're not John Smith when you answer the door to the police at home would defuse the whole are you Mr x , no I'm not debacle and resolve things quickly. Clearly hedgehog was within in their rights not to prove their identity, but sometimes volunteering information on who you are will clear up the situation a lot quicker and may help avoid additional confrontation.

[marymac]

Yes I would have just shown them some ID to help them out, but not if they had been oppressive and came close to my face. This would have riled me and I would have wanted them to know this. Sounds like these cops intention was to be oppressive and rile...

[JohnL]

I would have laughed but out of embarrassment but flashed my passport and then spent a week worrying what was going on before ringing and asking to speak to a superintendent.

[Dan-the-man]

Sounds awful. I must admit my opinion of the police has fallen. In their defence, it must be said that they do suffer from big resource cuts.

I had a similar big experience a few years ago- a nutcase attacked me on peckham rye park forcing me to call the police. When they came I was really shaken up and struggling to form coherent sentences and my knees were buckling (looking back I now realise I was suffering from shock symptoms, something they should have picked up on). The two officers did not have the presence of mind to ask the multiple people sitting nearby if they had seen anything, despite there being potentially up to 20-30 people sitting at Colicci cafe who could have given pretty reliable witness statements.

They knew the details of the man who'd attacked me (his partner was nearby) and said they'd go to his house and call me to update me later in the afternoon.

This they never did.

When I went down to Peckham Rye Police Station to hand in a detailed statement the next day and enquire what had happened(it was closed so I had to use the special phone outside), they said that the incident had been closed AT THE SCENE i.e. no investigation had even taken place, and the officers at the scene had just decided that no crime had been committed, directly contrary to what they'd told me to my face the day earlier.

After a really angry conversation with the officer i was speaking to on the phone, he agreed it was strange the incident had been closed and promised to send colleagues to take a statement from me directly. This was done, albeit after police failed to show up the initial scheduled visit.

I'd gone out to Colicci cafe and asked for witnesses and got a staff member who'd fortunately seen a lot of it and was prepared to give a statement. I gave the staff members details to the police officers who visited me, only to find a few weeks later that they still had not spoken to him!

There is a complaints process you can go through - independent office for police conduct. I went through this process, and dealt with a police officer at another station who went through everything from the beginning. The police got some basic details wrong in their reporting - they reported that I had taken a video of the attack and shown the video to the police. This was not true - I had tried to take a video but the camera was not working, so it's literally impossible I had shown a video to the police. Trying to correct this on the report seemed almost impossible.

The IOPC officer did eventually speak to the witness I'd brought forward (probably a month after the incident), but said by itself it was insufficient to lead to prosecution. I was a bit surprised but I don't know the standard of evidence required.

I was also made aware for the first time of allegations which had been pressed against me by my attacker's partner. These were not made to me by either the police officers at the scene (who spoke to the partner) or the police officers who came to visit me, which also seemed to be a very big oversight on their behalf.