London e-scooter trial: Southwark participation

[legalalien]

FYI Southwark has now formally decided to sign up to the pan-London e-scooter trial, which enables them to eg specify some no go zones, reduced speed zones, parking hubs etc.

Decision notice here : https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s99526/Report%20-%20London%20eScooters%20trial.pdf

To read more about the background and the identified benefits and risks, worth reading the TfL equalities impact assessment. I found the info about the risks of serious / head injury, compared with cycling, quite alarming. https://content.tfl.gov.uk/rental-escooter-trial-2021.pdf

[JohnL]

A lower maximum speed of 12.5mph

That's walking pace (edit: well jogging).

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2021/may/tfl-and-london-councils-announce-london-s-e-scooter-trial-will-begin-in-june

[DuncanW]

Seems good to me - looks like they're here to stay so better to regulated.

12kpmh is a fairly brisk jog I would say, eg running 10km in 50 minutes - I'd be pleased with that.... :)

[legalalien]

That would be 4:48 mins to run a mile I think - bit better than jogging! You?re right that you can?t use the US injury figure to suggest there are the same levels of danger associated with this particular trial, of course. Those illegally riding privately owned scooters at higher speeds on the roads are the ones putting themselves at highest risk.

[Spartacus]

Gawd help the blind and partially sighted 😱

[Rockets]

Every time I see someone on an e-scooter I can't help but think that they are inherently unstable - the centre of gravity is all wrong due to the position of the feet and I think people get into trouble when they hit a pot hole etc because of it.

Boris Bikes have always been a problem with people riding them who have no idea what they are doing and I can't help but think that with e-scooters it is going to be even worse.

[northernmonkey]

Don?t you think though that the current crazy situation of hiring being ok but not privately owned adds to it. If you owned the scooter you could get used to it?

[Rockets]

I am not sure it is even a case of getting used to it - they are inherently unstable due to the standing position and London roads are anything but smooth and I think the combination of the two is very dangerous. The issue with private e-scooters is that you cannot regulate their speed and some of them (we will all have seen them often going faster than cars) go ludicrously fast. Some companies even offer to retrofit e-scooters to make them go faster.

In Germany they have had real problems with e-scooter accidents and a lot of Germans lost their driving licences after being caught being drunk in charge of an e-scooter (which appears to be a big problem in a lot of areas that have rolled them out)! In Germany there has been a lobby calling for e-scooter training to be made compulsory for anyone who wants to rent one and that wearing a helmet when riding one should be a legal requirement.

It's clear they offer a very attractive solution to transportation problems but it's not as if they don't present a huge number of new issues.

[northernmonkey]

I think that is fair, and I had heard about the German issues. Do we know how France is getting on with them as believe they?re also widely used there

[Rockets]

It seems that all the trials are plagued by some of the same recurring issues (accidents involving injuries, scooter dumping and littering and bad/irresponsible riding - although it seems only the Germans cite drunk-riding as an issue!)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50189279

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210630-france-to-crack-down-on-e-scooters-after-two-riders-knock-down-and-kill-woman

[malumbu]

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Don?t you think though that the current crazy

> situation of hiring being ok but not privately

> owned adds to it. If you owned the scooter you

> could get used to it?

Not a crazy situation but a clumsy solution. As they are powered two wheeler they have to be effectively registered to go on the road, including insurance. The hire companies can do this. Similarly fully electric pushbikes, electric skateboards and segways are not road legal.

But the genie is out of the bottle. The authorities are not doing much to discourage road use. Sales are unlikely to be banned. Retailers only I expect need to say that these are for off road use only. And even if they were banned they'd come in from some grey market. And many seem to like them.

Not sure what the longer term plans are for mass acceptance and use.

And on the drunk in charge issue, people have been using pushbikes for decades to get them down the pub, with very few prosecutions.

[Chick]

There have been prosecutions for being drunk on an escooter resulting a driving ban.

[Earl Aelfheah]

They?re being used anyway, so makes sense to regulate them.

If we could have a cycle Lane down EDG, linking to the Railton Road LTN, then they would provide a good way to get to Brixton and the tube.

[Earl Aelfheah]

?although do we know if they?ll come to the south of the Borough? Southwark tend to leave us out of these kind of schemes.

[Rockets]

Chick Wrote:

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> There have been prosecutions for being drunk on an

> escooter resulting a driving ban.

The German police had rich pickings in Munich around Oktoberfest in 2019 - hundreds lost their licences as few realised that being drunk on an e-scooter resulted in a driving ban. Perhaps this is also a great way to help reduce car usage! ;-)

[legalalien]

The decision notice says ?Parking - to date, twelve stations to park the eScooters have been identified. These are all off the carriageway and are located in the north of the borough near main transport hubs, but some are located in the south of the borough. Some are in the same locations as agreed and used for the dockless bike stations as there was no concern raised with these locations previously.?