Zero tolerance of racism and hate crime in sport

[KidKruger]

Shame we can?t do a selective ?Scrabble? of society, for a clean start.

[JohnL]

So Tyrone Mings is the first to really open up a bit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/13/england-tyrone-mings-criticises-priti-patel-over-racism-remarks

Are we seeing the general view within the England camp - it doesn't feel like he's out of step ?

[Sephiroth]

he is absolutely spot on - and the fact that an English football player has to call the British government out on this is extraordinary. It should be a wake up call - but I suspect it will be the line where many people say "ah come on now - we all deplore racism, but you've gone too far here"

[TheCat]

Its pretty hard to argue the knee is not a gesture....when its not accompanied by any specific demands (unless you want to say its accompanied by the list of BLM's (the organisation) demands - which then would make my point about it being more than just a generic protest), just general 'awareness raising' apparently...and despite this 'gesture'...its clearly done f-all to help stop this appalling abuse.

Why continue to bang ones head against a brick wall in pursuit of goals that even many people who dont like the knee are likely to agree with? Perhaps start a totally new gesture, without the baggage that comes with 'taking the knee'?? and which has its specific associated aims as (for example) forcing Social media companies to better police racist content....that might be something more people get behind...

I can understand Ming's frustrations as he just sees the Knee as a simple anti-racist thing. But, again, he's missing the fact that many people dont see it that way.

[j.a.]

Sorry (not sorry) Cat.

You?re wrong. You?re on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of the argument, the wrong side of all of this.

These people you refer to - the silent majority I guess you?d call them - are also wrong. I?m tired of pretending they have a point. They don?t. They insist on it being something else, because they WANT it to be something else.

You will never agree that you got this wrong, well?that?s your problem. I?m done engaging with your childish trolling.

Just to be clear - you?re wrong.

[TheCat]

You're welcome to your OPINION j.a.

History also has a plenty of examples of people who are fundamentally dogmatic, and refused to consider alternative points of view or recommended paths of action, even with those who might share their ultimate goals. Those people aren't particularly well regarded.

Just to be super-clear also - I've come on here, said Im disgusted and shocked with racist abuse. I've said it should be stamped out like a bug. I've said I support stricter measure on policing racists abuse. And all you can say is that 'Im wrong'.....

talk about missing whats important.

[diable rouge]

''its clearly done f-all to help stop this appalling abuse''

No 'gesture' will stop racist trolls from being racist trolls, even one that gets your blessing. That lies with the social media platforms and/or Gov legislation.

There's nothing remotely offensive with taking the knee, and all this ''I don't like the knee'' nonsense is nothing but manufactured outrage, all part of a cultural war to 'own the libs'. I'd go so far as to say it's far more insidious, pernicious and downright dangerous than anything a racist troll wants to bang out in a temper tantrum...

[TheCat]

also...out of interest....is anyone that disagrees with your view of the world a 'childish troll'? Or is that just what you say when you really don't have much of an argument other than to label a binary 'you're wrong' on what is a subjective and complex discussion?

[diable rouge]

I'm really not a racist...

 

[Sephiroth]

We know that taking the knee is an anti racist gesture

We know there are more than a couple of racists in the crowd

We know that those racists boo the gesture

So, if it was me who had a problem with some perceived Marxist/BLM organisation agenda, but was also against racism, I think I would choose which side I condemned a bit more carefully than some people do

[TheCat]

I know I am against racism

I know that I disapprove of CRT as an effective method to combat racism,

I know that CRT is at the heart of the BLM organisation

I believe that taking the knee is clearly linked to tacit support of BLM (in ADDITION...to being an antiracist gesture)

Accordingly, while I wouldn't boo taking the knee myself. I do choose to express support for different anti-racists gestures/organisations/efforts....

I understand that most posters on here believe that the Knee is a totally unobjectionable gesture...and accept that as a valid perspective. Why is it so impossible for those same people to accept that my position perhaps has some validity also (even if they dont agree with it)?

There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is more than one way to combat racism. I strongly object to dog-whistle posts above which intimate that anyone who doesn't follow the 'one true path' is actually just a racist. This shows astounding narrowmindedness, in my view.

I donate money regularly to this organisation https://www.theequianoproject.com/ set-up and run by BAME people to discuss and combat racism in ways which don't adhere to CRT/BLM orthodoxy.

But I dont like taking the knee, so 'really' im just a childish racist troll apparently.

[Sephiroth]

to be clear Cat I'm not calling you a racist or even "suggesting" it in an underhand way

but taking the side of the booers (as Patel and Johnson - leaders of this country ffs - have done) against English players is very much dog whistling to the racists. You must be able to see this much? If you (not you, but one) if one is a racist, and you boo players taking the knee and you hear govt leaders support you, not the players - you are going to feel emboldened right?

You (actually you this time) do go to great pains to construct an elebaborate rationale for objecting to the knee, but why? you don't need to. They might even be very good reasons - but no-one is listening - you have people using a gesture against racism, and you have a plenty of racists booing them (and worse). That's what people are seeing

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> to be clear Cat I'm not calling you a racist or

> even "suggesting" it in an underhand way

>

> but taking the side of the booers (as Patel and

> Johnson - leaders of this country ffs - have done)

> against English players is very much dog whistling

> to the racists. You must be able to see this much?

> If you (not you, but one) if one is a racist, and

> you boo players taking the knee and you hear govt

> leaders support you, not the players - you are

> going to feel emboldened right?

>

> You (actually you this time) do go to great pains

> to construct an elebaborate rationale for

> objecting to the knee, but why? you don't need to.

> They might even be very good reasons - but no-one

> is listening - you have people using a gesture

> against racism, and you have a plenty of racists

> booing them (and worse). That's what people are

> seeing

I get what you're saying.

And fair enough, no one (well at least not on the EDF!) might be listening to me.....so I should change my message?

Surely not wildly dissimilar to if your method of fighting racism is causing all this angst (ant not just from me), then why not change it up?

Anyway....i dont think we're going to solve racism today...and I had better do some work at some stage!

[malumbu]

Extract from PM's statement yesterday:

"And to those who have been directing racist abuse at some of the players, I say shame one you....."

Yes, well articulated but then:

"...and I hope you will crawl back under the rock from which you emerged."

Who advised you just to send and insult? How does this help? You may have just have said "flip off and die".

Something along the lines of "I am proud to live in a multi-cultural country, and this team has shown the best of this. Racism has no place in modern England".

I've not seen the racist tweets and have no desire to see these, but some sentiments will reflect what many in this country will feel, whether through ignorance or embedded racism. Our Prime Minister needs to show better leadership. We are stuck with him, whereas Patel is expendable should he be brave enough to sack her.

[DuncanW]

He won't though

[heartblock]

Johnson embraces chaos, it?s his only political strategy. If you are an anti-racist, you would support the England team, supporting each other by taking the knee.

[diable rouge]

The right side of history...

[snowy]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know I am against racism

>

> I know that I disapprove of CRT as an effective

> method to combat racism,

>

> I know that CRT is at the heart of the BLM

> organisation

>

> I believe that taking the knee is clearly linked

> to tacit support of BLM (in ADDITION...to being an

> antiracist gesture)

>

> Accordingly, while I wouldn't boo taking the knee

> myself. I do choose to express support for

> different anti-racists

> gestures/organisations/efforts....

>

> I understand that most posters on here believe

> that the Knee is a totally unobjectionable

> gesture...and accept that as a valid perspective.

> Why is it so impossible for those same people to

> accept that my position perhaps has some validity

> also (even if they dont agree with it)?

>

> There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is

> more than one way to combat racism. I strongly

> object to dog-whistle posts above which intimate

> that anyone who doesn't follow the 'one true path'

> is actually just a racist. This shows astounding

> narrowmindedness, in my view.

>

> I donate money regularly to this organisation

> https://www.theequianoproject.com/ set-up and run

> by BAME people to discuss and combat racism in

> ways which don't adhere to CRT/BLM orthodoxy.

>

> But I dont like taking the knee, so 'really' im

> just a childish racist troll apparently.

Just so I understand; to tackle racism, you fund Equiano - a private company with one shareholder. A shareholder who is an ?anti woke? (her words) presenter on GB News who recently said that taking the knee was ?a way to express your intellectual and moral superiority??

[keano77]

This might be the wrong place to bring this up but can someone please explain to me what the right/wrong side of history is supposed to mean. The phrase is bandied about a lot these days.

[heartblock]

Is it bandied about a lot? I think if you are asking what it means, then maybe you need to start thinking a little deeper.

[keano77]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is it bandied about a lot? I think if you are

> asking what it means, then maybe you need to start

> thinking a little deeper.

You don?t know

[JohnL]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Johnson embraces chaos, it?s his only political

> strategy. If you are an anti-racist, you would

> support the England team, supporting each other by

> taking the knee.

I support Wales on the pitch but I support England and Southgate in what they're doing.

[malumbu]

The buck in government stops with the PM - he has not denounced racism effectively in a number of ways. He does not take the appropriate action against his Cabinet members, or get an agreed position.

Having a wacking great majority is no excuse. What it the right wing media's view?

[TheCat]

snowy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I know I am against racism

> >

> > I know that I disapprove of CRT as an effective

> > method to combat racism,

> >

> > I know that CRT is at the heart of the BLM

> > organisation

> >

> > I believe that taking the knee is clearly

> linked

> > to tacit support of BLM (in ADDITION...to being

> an

> > antiracist gesture)

> >

> > Accordingly, while I wouldn't boo taking the

> knee

> > myself. I do choose to express support for

> > different anti-racists

> > gestures/organisations/efforts....

> >

> > I understand that most posters on here believe

> > that the Knee is a totally unobjectionable

> > gesture...and accept that as a valid

> perspective.

> > Why is it so impossible for those same people

> to

> > accept that my position perhaps has some

> validity

> > also (even if they dont agree with it)?

> >

> > There is more than one way to skin a cat. There

> is

> > more than one way to combat racism. I strongly

> > object to dog-whistle posts above which

> intimate

> > that anyone who doesn't follow the 'one true

> path'

> > is actually just a racist. This shows

> astounding

> > narrowmindedness, in my view.

> >

> > I donate money regularly to this organisation

> > https://www.theequianoproject.com/ set-up and

> run

> > by BAME people to discuss and combat racism in

> > ways which don't adhere to CRT/BLM orthodoxy.

> >

> > But I dont like taking the knee, so 'really' im

> > just a childish racist troll apparently.

>

> Just so I understand; to tackle racism, you fund

> Equiano - a private company with one shareholder.

> A shareholder who is an ?anti woke? (her words)

> presenter on GB News who recently said that taking

> the knee was ?a way to express your intellectual

> and moral superiority??

Yes.

I didnt know that when supporting such a group, one should worry about how many 'shareholders' it has. I was more concerned with the discussion they are promoting and the education programmes they are pursuing. What a ridiculous strawman to raise.

I'm glad you engaged with the plethora of considered content on their website, from a large range of contributors (mostly from minority groups), some very highly regarded in their respective fields. No?, you didnt?....much easier to just snidely misrepresent the whole thing to score a few points on the EDF isnt it?

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The right side of history...

>

> https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/u

> ntitled-design-18.png?w=720

Interesting you should choose to use an image of MLK (as an side lets conveniently ignore the fact that this is well known photo of him leading a prayer, not participating in an act of 'taking the knee' for its own sake)....

But here's a man who's most famous quote is now made a mockery of by the modern CRT/Woke-Antiracists movement....not longer should we judge by content of character apparently, we must actively separate people on the basis of their skin colour to achieve to equity according to the modern dogma. To be 'colourblind' in the new mantra is to tacitly support the racists apparently....

We really are through the looking glass these days