The Swiss...

[DulwichFox]

Realated Article...

There is this Woman.. She is Married

She is in the Kitchen.

With one Hand she is Ironing.

With the other hand she is Washing the Dishes.

With one Foot she is Polishing the Floor.

With the other Foot she is operating Th Treadle of her Sewing Machine...

What sort of Woman is She.. ??

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She is a Swiss Army Wife....

Foxy.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Take your shoes and socks off, run with the goats and ask grandfather to prepare you toasted cheese over the open fire - you will see a nicer side to the Swiss.

Beware of jealous goatherds and flying wheelchairs.

[AGW3]

There are three sides to Switzerland as you may know: French, German and Italian. The sides that I mainly have experience with are French and a bit of the German side. Both sides take themselves very seriously, but the French Swiss are more reserved than the German Swiss. And you are right, sometimes when they greet you even though they know you well, it's done with a very strict face. The Swiss Germans seem to be a bit more outgoing and will go out for a drink and in general are more friendly.

They do appear to be more honest in business than in the UK in that they will generally let you know what is going on as opposed to keeping cards too close to their chest and they don't tend to lead you up the garden path with false hopes. In general they are not great talkers though will say what is necessary.

I'm not sure if you speak German but being at your customer's base in Zurich, speaking German would help although English is the second language of the German side of Switzerland. This is not the case in the French side where German is the second language and English does not appear to be as widely spoken as in the German side.

The office that I worked with in the French side was extremely quiet. You could hear a pin drop, which I found quite good when focussing on something in depth.

That's my experience and I hope it helps. Others, no doubt, on the forum will have different experiences.

[Alan Medic]

I can't add much. I once was taking a coach to Geneva which broke down in France. Two of us hitch hiked the rest of the way. Our last lift took us for a meal in the city and my abiding memory is of having pumpkin soup.Generous driver and lovely soup.

I also have cousin who lives there. The last time I met her at a surprise party for her parents I ended up being seated beside her. I learned that she didn't wear underwear. I can only blame this on the Swiss because no decent Catholic Irish girl would do that.

Feel free to use either of the above as icebreakers.

[MrBen]

Yeah good soup. But so it should be for ?12. I admit to being surprised by the prices. I knew it wasn't cheap but my last expense was a cab ride to Zurich airport which was about the same as from the plough pub to say, Camberwell green, and it was ?23.

Salary wise they must all earn more to compensate as I can't se how they'd function otherwise? The Swiss Franc is apparently now propped up by the German Euro in some kind of sovereign swap that I couldn't understand when they explained it.

[????]

I think the Swiss Franc has been a safe haven currency for a while and so is very high (hence even more expensive on top of it's expensive in the first place!). The Swiss have frantically been trying to get the Swiss Franc to fall in value as it's damaging exports.......

[maxxi]

The Swiss? Jeez!

[Salsaboy]

Exports of what? Chocs?

[MrBen]

They're really proud of their national produce. The inflight Swiss Air magazine has full page ads extolling 100 things to do with Gruyere cheese, whilst a handout of a mini Swiss chocolate bar is standard practice. They're also really into cakes and will ALWAYS sit down for a full hot meal at lunchtime. "Sandwiches at the desk are for the Dutch" was one of the stranger things I was told!

[WorkingMummy]

My husband is Swiss-German.

Don't make the "cuckoo clocks are Swiss" mistake. It really bugs them. The Swiss are into making hand-crafted precision watches. They don't go in for (Austrian/Bavarian) novelty pop-out birdy clocks.

Don't call them nazi gold lovers as suggested by someone above. That would be like calling an English person an imperialist oppressor and war-monger. Partly true on one level, but not fair to an individual and mostly just impolite.

They are quite formal socially. They shake hands to greet and say goodbye. But they would also shake hands to congratulate or thank during a meeting.

Wine ritual is a big thing. Over a meal, do not start your wine, even if your host has poured it for you, until your host (or someone else) has initiated the raising of glasses and the clinking all round. Clink with everyone, look them in the eye, and say, "zum voll"

Other than that, they are as varied a bunch as any nation.

PS. And of course, never, ever be late. Punctuality is second nature to a Swiss; if you are late they don't think you rude, they think you wierd, or maybe ill. And if you get invited to anyone's home, it's shoes off at the door.

[WorkingMummy]

Marmora Man Wrote:

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> MrBen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > woodrot Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I have always found they react warmly to a

> gift

> > of

> > > Nazi gold

> >

> > I might skip that one today Woody. But joking

> > aside, what's the truth/history on that?

>

> I don't know the true history on that but

> recently, travelling thru' Switzerland on the way

> to the ski slopes I wondered why, of all middle

> European nations, Switzerland was the only one not

> to be invaded by Nazi Germany during WWII. It's

> not a area that the many WWII histories that I've

> read ever touch on.

Because Switzerland had, before during and after both world wars, a position of "armed neutrality". But think very, very efficient, well organised, and ferocious ARMED neutrality. They had tanks lined up along all their boarders, they had (and still have) compulsory national service. They had reserves of basic supplies so they could outlast a seige. The mountains helped quite a lot! And they comprehensively rejected the faint suggestion from the tiny nazi party inside their boarders to merge with Germany.

Do you not know about the reputation of the Swiss Guards? They used to be the personal body-guards of all the royal families of continental Europe (as privateers, Switzerland being neutral). They still protect the pope to this day.

Switzerland has a very strong humanitarian history (The Red Cross, Jacob Kunzler, etc etc) and took a lot of refugees in during the war. The nazi gold issue is NOT a myth, and has been a painful controversy both inside and outside the country. But it is certainly not the case that hitler left the swiss alone because "they" took his loot. He didn't take them on because he probably would have failed, the population were not sympathetic and the country was of no strategic significance.

[El Pibe]

All very well but something of a fantasy.

The Wehrmacht were dismissive of the Swiss forces and felt they could conquer the place with relative ease, and they were probably correct.

No one can know for sure why Hitler never gave the order, but it seems pretty likely that they simply had other priorities. After the invasion of France hitler was unduly paranoid about British manoevering in the Balkans and Norway, and got bogged down in Greece, Yugoslavia and of course North Africa.

Shortly afterwards Barbarossa kicked off and that was that really.

Progress was slow enough in Italy that Germany never needed to use the Swiss Alps to prevent Allied forces exploiting them, and I'm guessing that in the latter phase of the war Swiss neutrality proved very useful in siphoning and laundering their loot, not to mention getting the hell out of Der Texas!!

[WorkingMummy]

So "no one knows for sure" and "that's fantasy" don't sit very well, I'd say. And I think you need to be a bit more specific with your "fantasy" critique at least. Which bit is fantasy? The humanitarian history? The refugee position? The fact of a very strong and well trained standing army and compulsory national service for all men (which as I say, remains position today). And if we are talking about fantasists, Hitler was just about the biggest and most narcissistic one in history. Since when has anyone taken HIS failure openly to recognise the real reason he could NOT accomplish something as indicative of the "truth"?

The Swiss are a people who prize peace over conquest but who are absolutely committed to being armed to protect themselves against the slightly more imperialist ambitions which have plagued Europe for centuries. And they take this stance a long way (to the point where, even today, every home by law has a nuclear bunker in case the rest of the continent totally loses its marbles and starts pressing buttons).

All cause and effect theories in history are open to intepretation. But swiss history is very easily misinterpreted by other europeans and by Anglo-Saxons in particular. WW2 was not the beginning of successful armed nuetrality, nor the cause. But armed neutrality is so alien to the rest of (war mongering) Europe (and America) that its very easy to be suspicious of it, in a way that is grossly unfair and ultimately less than honest about our OWN reasons for going to war.

And WW2 is where that misunderstandng really gets heated. Ww2 was the FIRST of countless age-long European conflicts that had a clear "good v evil" form. In every single conflict up until then, the Swiss' "armed pacifism" was THE only sane position in a hatefully, crazily war torn area. But just as, even against that moral context of good and evil, it would be "fantasy" (in your terms) to suggest that the reason the British declared war on Hitler was to try to prevent the holocaust, (we went with appeasement for quite a while and only abandoned that when our own national interests were sufficiently threatened) it is unjust to the point of slanderous to suggest that Swiss neutrality was caused by Nazi sympathies, or that Hitler's decision not to invade was the consequence of some kind of national bribe. It's a very Anglo-Saxon view point and it offends most Swiss.

Which, if you want to do business with them, is probably a bad idea.

WM

Ps I could go into the highly evolved state of Swiss democracy, the absolute absence of a specific ruling or political class, the tiny size of its federal state, the way everything is decided by referendum and the way the vast majority of taxation is raised and spent at a very local level. Which helps explain both the history of neutrality (it had always been down to the populace to decide if they wanted to send their own sons off to die for the Holy Roman Emporer, or Napolean, or whoever the feck) and its organic "banking secrecy". But, maybe that'd be overkill.

[El Pibe]

I didn't suggest anything about the position of Swiss neutrality at all, no idea where you get the bribe bit from. I suggested that when the failure of the third reich was becoming apparent, that this may well have precluded an invasion because a neutral Switzerland was more useful thing to have on ones borders.

The fantasy is that somehow having a well armed conscript force was in any way shape or form a deterrence to a German invasion. We can't know why Hitler didn't give the order, but I t certainly wasn't on cautionary advice of his generals who drew up plans that evidence suggest would probably have gone according to plan, as much as war ever does.

In 1941 the Germans invaded Yugoslavia to bolster the humiliating failure of their Italian ally's Balkan campaign.

They faced 700,000 well armed troops, although their artillery and armour were dated, it was not significantly worse than their Swiss counterparts.

Yugoslavia is also difficult terrain in which to fight a war.

It took the Germans a few weeks at the loss of about 600 soldiers.

The red army had the best tank forces of the war, the best ground support fighters and an army of several million men and only stopped the germans a thousand miles beyond their border, thanks to an unusually deep winter, and a further four years of bitter conflict that saw 6 million soldiers die to defeat Germany.

The British were able to win in North Africa primarily thanks to the Royal Navy and Air Force based in Malta strangling the supply lines.

The allies in the western front won thanks to overwhelming air superiority, and the vast advantages in supplies, and it still took millions of men to do so.

The precedents don't exactly support a theory that the Swiss were somehow uniquely positioned to successfully stymie a Wehrmacht advance.

[Alec John Moore]

El Pibe, you forgot Bletchley Park.

[El Pibe]

Ww2 is a pretty big subject to tackle in four sentences!! ;)

[woodrot]

"it is unjust to the point of slanderous to suggest that Swiss neutrality was caused by Nazi sympathies, or that Hitler's decision not to invade was the consequence of some kind of national bribe. It's a very Anglo-Saxon view point and it offends most Swiss"

I am sorry, but this is historical kidology.The Swiss were working hand in hand with the Reich when formulating their refugee status, indeed post September '39 , new emigrant arrivals were repatriated whoescale based on Swiss fears of a Nazi invasion/ being swamped with foreign types. I seem to recall that pre war, the Swiss agreed with the Reichs request to stamp newly arrived german Jews passports with a bit fat J , just to ensure they were easy to identify.The SHoah institute have not exactly been fans of Swiss policies in the WW2 period.

I dont have a problem with the Swiss people ( I do have a problem with their corrupt and distasteful financial system and its unerring ability to profit from global unrest and de facto corruption, embezzelement and slaughter) , but selective fact picking and a bit of hand wringing isnt the way to proceed here. The Swiss are essentially selfish - I dont mean this as a jibe or critisism, but Swiss survival is paramount, any collateral damage- financial or human - is an unfortunate by product of this inward looking perspective.bludz.

[Lowlander]

WorkingMummy Wrote:

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>... it is unjust to the

> point of slanderous to suggest that Swiss

> neutrality was caused by Nazi sympathies, or that

> Hitler's decision not to invade was the

> consequence of some kind of national bribe. It's a

> very Anglo-Saxon view point and it offends most

> Swiss.

It's just fantasy to suggest Switzerland was superior to Germany in a military way. Even the Swiss think this. There is a very useful guide on dealing with the Swiss here: http://switzerland.isyours.com/e/swiss-business-guide/wwii.html

As they point out, it's definately not a business conversation! But it is something that's been missed out in Swiss education perhaps.

Switzerland in essence was a very useful country and not worth invading. For the Swiss defence, well, they didn't have much choice...

Anwyay, I quite like Switzerland, fascinating country and nice people once you work them out. Couldn't live there though.

[MrBen]

I reckon Hitler probably did the effort:reward ratio on an invasion and rightly figured it was worth focussing elsewhere, so Swiss military capability and Alpine terrain would surely be part of that analysis.

So you're probably all correct to some extent...

[david_carnell]

Gosh, their rail travel seems even more Draconian than ours in fraud prevention:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241

[Ted Max]

Judging by the mighty "Asterix in Switzerland" the French also subscribe to the following Swiss tropes:

Obsessive tidiness*

Secret bankers

The Red Cross

The UN

Yodeling and long horns

Cuckoo clocks (hey, don't shoot the messenger)

William Tell

Fondue

http://i45.tinypic.com/9jhsvr.jpg

[Huguenot]

Swiss railways making $2,000,000 a month from unjustified fines?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241

Surely not?

[Huguenot]

The Swiss aren't even trying to claim they behaved reasonably during the war regarding either refugees or cash management.

Their very own Bergier Commission pulled every last strand of wool from their eyes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergier_Commission#Refugee_policy

I particularly noticed this example of gutter expediency: "In 1941 when the Nazi government stripped German Jews of their citizenship, the Swiss authorities applied the law to German Jews living in Switzerland by declaring them stateless; when in February 1945 Swiss authorities blocked German Bank accounts held in Switzerland they declared that the German Jews were no longer stateless, but were once again German and blocked their Swiss bank accounts as well."

The Swiss institutions helped themselves to Jewish gold any way that they could, redefining the status of Jews to suit whatever asset stripping excercise was likely to prove most effective at any given time.

[Ridgley]

Can we all agree that the Swiss likes to sit on the fence , as for H point of view my old man relative who are Jewish have said something along those lines as many of his family perished in WW11