Bakerloo Line extension petition through Camberwell and Peckham

[edhistory]

James Wrote:

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> I think via Camberwell & Peckham then terminating

> at Lewisham would be the best option. Does anyone

> know if this would be feasible?

This book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thames-Water-Ring-Main-Engineering/dp/0727720031/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380618222&sr=1-6&keywords=thames+water+main

has a chapter about tunnelling under Tooting Bec using modern clay freezing techniques. As the formations under Camberwell and Peckham are similar, the answer to this part is probably yes.

You may be able to borrow the book through Southwark Libraries.

Going down to Lewisham is rather more difficult.

John K

[Louisa]

Bromley has every right to stick two fingers up at the rest of grotty London. It is more like a market town and I love it there. Why should its character be changed just to suit other London suburbs nearby that are basically grotty unsightly dumps. I think a tube station damages the isolation of suburban London, this is why so many south Londonders love and are proud of this side of the water. The tube isn't in our DNA and never should be.

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

Bromley has character?

Agree that places like Croydon and Bromley don't need a tube though, they're towns in their own right.

[Medley]

Louisa, the Tube may not be in your DNA - but would I go back to Honor Oak Park with just Southern trains and not the Overground?

Not on your life.

[showboat]

Bromley's character is that of a little Englander nimby with mild racist overtones, speaking as one who was unfortunate enough to have to spend some time there.

Market town? Not to me, but YMMV.

[????]

Whilst I am not sure about Bromley, I agree completley with Loiusa about the tube...would spoil SE22 and I don't give a Foook about my house price. Another transient suburb full of SAFFAS and Aussies...nooo thanks. I do like the less transient saffas and aussies we have now to be clear ; )

[James]

Bizarrely I totally agree with you Louisa. Let Bromley stay isolated and tubeless. This is a good idea, chiefly for two reasons:

1) Mind-numbingly dull and parochial suburbs like Bromley are important breeding grounds for creative people who, driven mad by their stultifying curtain-twitching mediocrity, escape and create wonderful things. As in David Bowie (ex-Bromley), Mick Jagger (ex-Dartford)

2) The sort of people who live in Bromley are unpleasant, rightwing, Daily Mail-worshipping types - mildly homophobic, racist and bigoted. I should know as I grew up there. So I would prefer they kept themselves to themselves, thanks very much. No need to rub it in the rest of our faces.

[Louisa]

James Wrote:

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> Bizarrely I totally agree with you Louisa. Let

> Bromley stay isolated and tubeless. This is a good

> idea, chiefly for two reasons:

>

> 1) Mind-numbingly dull and parochial suburbs like

> Bromley are important breeding grounds for

> creative people who, driven mad by their

> stultifying curtain-twitching mediocrity, escape

> and create wonderful things. As in David Bowie

> (ex-Bromley), Mick Jagger (ex-Dartford)

>

> 2) The sort of people who live in Bromley are

> unpleasant, rightwing, Daily Mail-worshipping

> types - mildly homophobic, racist and bigoted. I

> should know as I grew up there. So I would prefer

> they kept themselves to themselves, thanks very

> much. No need to rub it in the rest of our faces.

The sort of people who live in Bromley are actually the sort of true Londoners who moved out there to escape the overpriced, grotty, crime ridden inner London areas they were born in- and create an oasis on the edge of a scabby city which retains rural charm and has all the amenities a so called 'gentrified' wannabe place like ED can only dream of having. It's a win-win for those people! Oh and the house prices aren't as overinflated as they are here and the people actually engage in conversation and smile occasionally, unlike the dull Home Counties drabs who walk around with their phone plugged into their ear hole looking down at the ground because they have the personality of a brick wall. No, I agree James, let the tube move into the scabby inner suburbs of South London, and good old Bromley can keep its fast service into London Victoria, which incidentally is still better connected than around here. :)

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

Louisa Wrote:

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> has all the amenities a so

> called 'gentrified' wannabe place like ED can only

> dream of having.

>

> Louisa.

Such as....

[showboat]

Bromley "Oasis"?

I'll have some of what Louisa's been smoking. And let me repeat I - like James - know something about the place.

[Louisa]

LondonMix - better rail connections than ED, you can get into Central London on a fast train without changing. A much better bus service into London and also out to rural Kent/Surrey. It has a large Waitrose and M&S alongside a big indoor shopping centre. The streets are much cleaner, less litter... Do I need to go on? All the Bromley haters are jealous of the fact they are zone 2 folk who are paying more for their homes in a less well connected area with fewer amenities.

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

Anyone who lives in ED could afford to live in Bromley if they wanted to. You can't be jealous of something you are actively choosing not to have :/

You don't need a fast train into central London from ED as its in inner London. How much faster do you want to go directly into London Bridge when it currently only takes 12 minutes...

Big Waitrose would be nice though :) Still, I choose ED mostly because people who live in Bromley hate most of the things I like about London!

[James]

Agree with LondonMix. The main drawback with Bromley is the people. Most (and of course, there are exceptions) are narrow-minded and have no interest all the things that make London one of the greatest cities on earth. Shopping at the Glades (or whatever it's called now) is their idea of culture.

There are some fascinating examples of Bromley-ism, from the council's money-grabbing battles with the GLC in the 70s and 80s (reminiscent of Thatcher's anti-Europe isolationism in microcosm) to the Downham wall - a Berlin wall-style partition erected by Bromley residents to keep the hoi polloi of Lewisham out (seriously, this actually happened)!

[James]

http://www.historytoday.com/michael-nelson/gated-communities-class-walls

Story of the Downham Wall, for anyone who's interested!

Another reason why the Tube shouldn't go to Bromley.

[KidKruger]

"Downham wall - a Berlin wall-style partition erected by Bromley residents to keep the hoi polloi of Lewisham out (seriously, this actually happened)!"

Ha !! reminds me when I lived on outskirts of Boston in an area called Jamaica Plain, where the opposite was attempted - residents petitioned for the area to be re-named 'MandelaTown' and wanted it separated from surrounding areas !!

[lane lover]

???? Wrote:

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> Whilst I am not sure about Bromley, I agree

> completley with Loiusa about the tube...would

> spoil SE22 and I don't give a Foook about my house

> price. Another transient suburb full of SAFFAS and

> Aussies...nooo thanks. I do like the less

> transient saffas and aussies we have now to be

> clear ; )

A wee bit racist dont you think? London benefits from its transient population, and to single out Australians and South Africans as such stinks of complete ignorance.

Would you know if 90% of ED were transient? Would it really affect you?

I am not sure how the tube would actually increase the number of people in ED. Its a mere 12 minute ride from LB (a fairly busy transport hub); and I dont expect towers of flats to be built because of a tube station. Where would they be built?

The reason ED is less busy than Clapham is because the terraces are smaller and harder to convert to flats. A tube wont change that.

I would welcome another transport option. I think the recent addition of the Overground is a great benefit for areas like Peckham, and more infrastructure options can only be a good thing.

[Jeremy]

lane lover Wrote:

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> A wee bit racist dont you think?

OK... let's change it to "saffas aussies and frogs".

Feel free to add more.

[StraferJack]

Paddies?

[Jeremy]

That's more like it. Nice and inclusive now.

[Louisa]

All of the anti-Bromley stuff is inverse snobbery. Lots of old school south Londoners moved out east to Bromley and Dartford just as the cockneys moved out of the east end into Dagenham and Romford. It was a natural progression as well as rehousing post war slum clearance. To describe these people as 'mildly racist' or 'hating everything about London that I love' is an ignorant and misunderstood evaluation as to why these people are now residing in these areas. Few in Bromley would describe their shopping centre as better than the bigger shopping areas further into town- so why people are suggesting that is ludicrous. Bromley council runs one of the largest and most populous councils in greater London so any arguments they had about funding in the 70s and 80s were routed in that, nothing at all to do with a mirroring of thatchers anti-European stance. What a ridiculous and odd bunch of comments from people who like to see themselves above those of others purely because they live closer to the centre of town. No wonder ED has lost it's mojo in the last few years and so many neighbouring areas find us pompous and arrogant.

Louisa.

[toffeese15]

Louisa Wrote:

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>...so many neighbouring areas

> find us pompous and arrogant.

>

> Louisa.

These neighbouring areas talk do they? What else do they have to say?

Whenever I think of Bromley I think of a friend who moved there about 6 years ago. His next-door neighbour introduced himself with the line: "It was a relief to see that you weren't a ni**er".

Personally, I've never quite forgiven the f*ckers for killing off Fares Fair.

[Louisa]

Another ignorant and misinformed attack on Bromley. Making wild conclusions about a whole borough of people based on one alleged incident. And people call me ignorant? I'm guessing by that argument their are no racist attitudes in inner London because it is so educated and well informed? Baseless argument with a stereotypical example to make a point about a whole borough full of people. Who's really the ignorant one?

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

I find Bromley rather faceless and uninteresting... but I don't think it's wise to make these sort of generalisations ("people from Bromely are racists") based on a few personal experiences.

[toffeese15]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Another ignorant and misinformed attack on

> Bromley. Making wild conclusions about a whole

> borough of people based on one alleged incident.

> And people call me ignorant? I'm guessing by that

> argument their are no racist attitudes in inner

> London because it is so educated and well

> informed? Baseless argument with a stereotypical

> example to make a point about a whole borough full

> of people. Who's really the ignorant one?

>

> Louisa.

A couple of things. Firstly, it was not baseless, unless you're accusing me of making this up. Secondly, I made no wild conclusions. You did. Thirdly, I presume you live in SE22, but you seem to hate 'grotty' London and relish mocking the pretensions of its 'pompous and arrogant inhabitants, yet are offended when people do similar about Bromley. Pot, kettle, black.

[James]

Not everyone in Bromley is a swivel-eyed loony rightwing nutter.

However, take a look at how people vote in Bromley... it's quite telling, I can assure you.