All Streets Matter ?????

[Rockets]

Thanks DKHB??you just illustrated my point perfectly???.by default then are you suggesting Labour MP Rupa Huq is a white supremacist?

[tomszekeres]

Here's what Rupa Huq said in context:

> How do we reverse the UK?s long-standing, illegally high air pollution? First, we should stop Heathrow expansion. It is incompatible with the UK?s net zero targets. Why add to what is already Europe?s biggest CO2 emitter, which is doing enormous damage to my constituency and to that of my near neighbour the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) through air and noise pollution? We know that in the new normal we will do things differently, and Zoom works for business meetings, so why not save those air flights for sparingly used leisure travel? The expansion of Charles de Gaulle airport in France has been stopped; we should do the same.

> Secondly, we should stop new road building. It induces demand. Thirdly, we should stop lying to the public?remember the VW emissions scandal, and what the people who bought diesel cars were told, among other examples. Fourthly, the cycle to work scheme needs an overhaul to include larger firms and to be a genuine incentive, not just a faff. Children should be included, too.

> Fifthly, we need more proper, dedicated, segregated, permanent cycle lanes, not the pop-up things that come and go and do not join up to anything else. Sixthly, we should re-examine low-traffic neighbourhoods, recognising that all streets matter.

She used the phrase at the end of a sentence, not in title case, not as a standalone phrase on a poster designed to be put in people's windows. Context really does matter here.

[ED_girl123]

As author of the original post I am just going to step in here. I feel like as much constructive conversation that could happen around this has been achieved.

1) a reminder that it is upsetting/a plea for people to Edit or remove their sign (whilst waiting for new ones)in the light that it upsets many of the people they share a community with

2) recognising that some people don?t see a problem with it

3) but ultimately DA has apologised and is correcting the issue regardless

4) though the original text was taken from a speech where the phrase was not isolated, but it has since been isolated which brings strong resemblance by phrase coined by white suprematist ?all lives matter?

5) accident or not, who wants their actions to appear to be like that of/ or sympathise with white suprematists? No one. Hence a decision has been made to remove the slogan.

6) the two discussions can happen in parallel. No slogan does not mean no change on the road issue. Fixing the road issue can exist without this slogan. (Evident by the new posters in print)

Only doing this because I think the discussion is going round in circles, people are misunderstanding each other, and don?t want this to be an unpleasant discussion. Thank you for everyone who got involved, and provided answers to what?s been done about it since. I truly hope that anyone who didn?t understand the backlash against it now does. Have a lovely evening x

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks DKHB??you just illustrated my point

> perfectly???.by default then are you suggesting

> Labour MP Rupa Huq is a white supremacist?

No. I'm also not suggesting that Dulwich Alliance are white supremacists - just that they're a bunch of self-centred twonks who don't consider the impact of their actions on others...in slogans as well as in policies.

[Metallic]

Some of the people commenting on here show they could have an argument about anything at all. Surely the fact that hundreds of people in parts of our area are suffering from terrible traffic whilst the council sits on its hands, is the thing we should be worried about. They will try to swing the stats they create from the consultation, I have no doubt.

The Alliance people apologised and acknowledged they were wrong to use a phrase that might have upset part of our community. For heavens sake just leave it now as I have already seen the odd new poster appearing which has a more acceptable phrasing.

Us supporters of a better scheme than the current one are looking forward to hearing some apologies from all the pro-cycling groups who do not care about anyone but themselves.

What we need is better public transport and school street hours for the closures.

[Rockets]

DKHB - to be fair the same accusation of being "self-centred twonks who don't consider the impact of their actions on others" could be levelled at supporters of the LTNs! #justsayin

The bottom line is that lots of posters are appearing all over Dulwich and it is a very visual reminder that it is, much to the annoyance of some, anything but a small vocal minority who oppose these measures. The council ought to be taking note......

[bels123]

Shame to see Pickwick Estates doubled down and underlined the tone deaf slogan

[JohnL]

Implying a part of "the culture war" when there is no need for that to be portrayed.

To get to net-zero by 2050 will take a lot more pain than this - I guess we'll give up by 2025.

[Rockets]

bels123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Shame to see Pickwick Estates doubled down and

> underlined the tone deaf slogan

>

> https://twitter.com/unceyj/status/1392753883370360

> 833?s=21

Bels123 - did you check whether that underlining was done by Pickwick or the person who posted the picture to draw attention to it? Take a walk past Pickwick to check for yourself - whilst you're there, I am sure you will want to pop in and apologise to them for your post because there is no yellow underlining on the poster in their window.......;-)

[bels123]

I?d hope the poster isn?t still up to be honest, yellow underlining or not.

[Rockets]

Bels1233 - That's all well and good but I think you owe Pickwick an apology because it is clear they did not "double-down and underline the tone-deaf message" as you claimed in your post.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Rockets Wrote:

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> The bottom line is that lots of posters are

> appearing all over Dulwich

The road opening lobby was initially vociferous (and vicious) in its opposition to the road closures because they claimed to be concerned about the impact on BAME communities and a conspiracy by a wealthy Dulwich elite. (Neither of these claims were ever substantiated). Now we've seen many of the super luxury homes along Dulwich Village displaying posters that repurposed the "all lives matter" slogan. 🤔

[northernmonkey]

Not sure that anyone putting up a tone deaf poster is 'deserving of an apology', rather they should have a think about whether it was good judgement to put it up in the first place.

It is possible to support a campaign and yet still exercise some judgement as has been stated previously.

[tedfudge]

Because people do not agree with your views or your points does not make them wrong... everybody has different opinions on all sorts of things.. my opinion all lives matter people of different races religion sexuality are persecuted around the world and killed tortured abused etc every single day... if people started saying white lives matter who would that offend ? Minorities ?

If people said straight people matter would that offend gay people ? .. my opinion is mine the same as everybody on the planet has their own opinion on different things and it does not make anybody wrong because someone says black lives matter in my eyes does not make them wrong just the same as when someone says all lives matter in my eyes does not make them wrong either.. before anyone starts iam not a thug or racist or anything else just a normal person or does that offend anyone? I'm a good person I pick dead animals like foxes cats ( picked up a dead fox last week and put next to a tree and a cat today while I was doing my deliveries both had been run over and I cannot bare the thought of them staying in road been continuously run over )..

[northernmonkey]

This has been covered a lot upthread and I'm not going to go over it all again here - but what should be clear that having an individual view is also very different to an organisation designing, mass printing and dispatching posters.

The Dulwich Alliance has now accepted that they made an error in judgement in this wording and has a new poster that some people and businesses have now swapped so in that respect the problem has been 'addressed'. It will remain to be seen whether the Dulwich Alliance's efforts to distribute their posters and flyers will be matched in their endeavor to ensure that their supporters don't continue to display the offending poster!

[Rockets]

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not sure that anyone putting up a tone deaf poster

> is 'deserving of an apology', rather they should

> have a think about whether it was good judgement

> to put it up in the first place.

>

> It is possible to support a campaign and yet still

> exercise some judgement as has been stated

> previously.

No, you're missing the point. Bels123 made an accusation against Pickwick Estates, a well established local company, that was wrong in relation to "doubling down and underlining the tone-deaf message".

Surely that requires some sort of apology or retraction as it was completely inaccurate? We have seen many on the pro-LTN side attack local businesses, lobbying for boycotts etc, so I am sure Bels123 would want to put the record straight on that error.

[northernmonkey]

No, still not missing the point.

Pickwick Estates displayed a tone deaf poster in their window - its not the yellow line or lack of that's the concern here. Without the crass slogan, the highlighting or not wouldn't be in point!

Whilst obviously, Dulwich Alliance are responsible for the campaign, that doesn't absolve individuals of personal responsibility so probably best to read things before displaying in the window.

[Rockets]

bels123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Shame to see Pickwick Estates doubled down and

> underlined the tone deaf slogan

>

> https://twitter.com/unceyj/status/1392753883370360

> 833?s=21

But Northern - please see above. They didn't underline the message did they?

[northernmonkey]

Time for a re read.

I said that its not the question of whether there is an underline or not that is offensive - its the crass slogan that the Dulwich Alliance chose - something they've acknowledged was offensive, and has been replaced.

[heartblock]

When a campaign starts to bite...then opponents find the weakest point and attack, even to the point of smearing (in ED Grove) everyday people who have put a poster in their window because they are being ignored by the Council. Also smearing businesses that are also suffering here and on Twitter on Melbourne and LL.

This includes carers, health workers and teachers etc. who have to suffer an increase in pollution, so others can live in their nice leafy quite rd.

I imagine the thought of losing their nice, leafy quiet rd, means that they will be reduced to smearing their neighbours on boundary rds, because of a badly worded poster. Yes, they did use this term from MP Huq's speech and yes it does have a 'trigger' because it is close to a white supremacist slogan. I have been part of BLM as well as other anti-racist campaigns and it 'triggered' me, but all streets matter isn't a racist slogan is it? It just triggers a reminder of a very hateful group of people.

I fully understand that many do not keep such a keen eye and politics, they are not on Twitter, they do not follow this forum and the only reason they have the DA poster in the window, is because they are despairing of the situation that has increased their risk of ill health and want to be part of a campaign that is listening to them and giving them a voice.

So, I do wonder how many on this thread decrying the phrase and smearing their neighbours are actually that upset about the poster? If they are really that concerned about racism, maybe they should consider the actions of the LCC official who was very much involved in setting up LTNs and maybe they should listen to little ninja and Rosumunda Kissi Debrah on their opinions of LTNs and the impact on the BAME community.

[alice]

Heartblock such an excellent post. I think you?ve covered it. Thankyou.

[Rockets]

Heartblock - well said.

I am sure some are upset by the use of the phrase but it comes as no surprise that many of the most vocal pro-LTN advocates are using it as an excuse to attack the organisation behind it and to deposition them and their position. That's fair enough and it is to be expected but they need to be careful they don't overdo it as DA has apologised and reprinted the posters and as they say - they're is no such thing as bad publicity!

The thing about posters such as these, regardless of message, is that they are a very good viral marketing tools and once one goes up others feel, if they agree with the message, that they want to show their support - especially when people think that they are not being heard or listened to.

I have been very pleasantly surprised by how many people are displaying the poster, it really is starting to show the numbers of people who oppose the closures and I very much suspect many of the advocates for the LTNs really don't like it and are focusing on the use of the phrase as an attempt to attack the group behind the message and the message they are delivering.

The council failed to deliver information on the review to the majority of Dulwich residents but DA and the other groups are doing an amazing job to drum up awareness and support despite the best efforts of the council! The review is going to be fascinating.

[CPR Dave]

It s the same way these people campaigned for Remain and then for Labour in the general elections. Call anyone who doesn't agree with them stupid and racist. It won't wash.

[JohnL]

Rockets Wrote:

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> Bels1233 - That's all well and good but I think

> you owe Pickwick an apology because it is clear

> they did not "double-down and underline the

> tone-deaf message" as you claimed in your post.

The "underline" might be part of the poster - but it makes it look sort of LibDem and the word "Alliance" just brings up memories of Dr Death and The Boy David.

[Droid]

Well said Heartblock and CPR D, the silent majority are right behind you.

The vocal "Thought Police" have us all walking on egg shells these days. Not to mention the "No Platform" brigade.