Criteria for Kingsdale School

[Eggybread]

Hello, we?re starting to think about potential secondary school options for our son and really like the sound of the creative ethos of Kingasdale. Has anyone any tips about what was effective. Our son is musical but not sporting. He?s learning two instruments but not currently a track to do his grades, he?s year 3. Will they recognise aptitude over formal music qualifications?

Interested to hear people?s experiences.

Thanks

[northernmonkey]

probably post in the family room discussion for more input - criteria says apptitude rather than formal grades. Also the SE22 piano school do music aptitude test prep.

[Eggybread]

Thank you! Will do.

[akc74]

Our experience of the music scholarship tests were that they were fairly rigorous, and with hindsight I probably shouldn't have put my son through it as he wasn't quite at the standard required. However, I don't think it's all grade-based, more about natural ability - though there was quite a big theory element to the process (from what little I could get out of my son afterwards!).

[BellendenBear]

They aren?t looking for grades or qualifications. Same at Haberdashers which has a brilliant music department. My daughter got music scholarships for both after having 1 year of saxophone lessons with her year 4 class then just over a year of private lessons. She hadn?t done any exams. She ended up at Kingsdale and so far it?s been great.

[Eggybread]

Thanks everyone, good to know. And has anyone managed to get in not via the scholarships and, if so, what do they think worked/helped?

[tomskip]

According to the school, "getting in" without a scholarship is a pure lottery (unless of course you have an older sibling in the school). So I don't think you can do anything to help.

[theratprincess]

My child got music scholarships to Haberdashers and Kingsdale, starting at Kingsdale next year. They played two instruments - one Grade 5, one Grade 4. I was informed by various local music teachers that around Grade 5 is their experience of the level that past pupils got in at.

Various of my child?s friends who are good musicians with more than one instrument at Grade 2 or 3 did not get any scholarships at Kingsdale, not even a half scholarship and ended up on the waiting list or with nothing at Haberdashers.

I heard though that this year was an unusually high standard due to a larger number of private school applicants.

These schools have to say they?re just looking for raw aptitude, but I?m really sceptical about that.

[BellendenBear]

tomskip Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> According to the school, "getting in" without a

> scholarship is a pure lottery (unless of course

> you have an older sibling in the school). So I

> don't think you can do anything to help.

This is correct, they use a banded lottery for non-scholarship admissions.

[Coach Beth]

This was about 5 years ago but my son got a music scholarship place at Kingsdale - he played drums and at the time had his grade 2 drum kit exam so it definately wasn't grade 5! (Actually, only got grade 4 a couple years ago and then sadly he decided he didn't want to play drums anymore). In the end, he didn't take the place and went to Charter ED instead.

My recollection of the entrance was that he brought in a CD of a piece he was working on and played along to that... as you would in an exam. He was asked about his favorite drummer and, being the son of a jazz musician (my husband), said Buddy Rich! Equally, a friends daughter who had played violin and I think had her grade 4 didn't get a scholarship. There could also be an issue with the school wanting a balance of instruments - so if they play the bassson, which is rarer than violin, they might stand a better chance.

As an aside, I wish someone had told me when I was young that most bands will need a good rythm section and bass guitarists are in high demand... as opposed to flute players who are a dime a dozen!

[mfp]

My son loved the music department at Kingsdale when we visited. He had been playing the Bass Guitar for approx 6 months and so practiced a couple of pieces (Metallica and Arctic Monkeys - very cool!) to prepare and was offered a half scholarship. The school put him in for Grade 1 in year 7 and he then covid hit - throughout the closures he still had his music lesson online and was preparing for Grade 2 & 3. So don't be put off by the grades but agreed perhaps a not so popular instrument might help.

[Eggybread]

Thank you. Extremely helpful!

[Soylent Green]

My two both failed the music scholarship and got into the school. Even the scholarship place are a lottery - you just go into a different pot. The school does banding tests and names are selected randomly from each band. The waiting list, however, is band and distance based. If you like the school the most, make it your first preference. It won't affect your chances of getting a place at other schools as the schools do not know where they are on your list. In terms of prep, I bought the non verbal reasoning Bond books for my kids so they were familiar with the tests before taking them.

[redjam]

You can absolutely get a music scholarship at Kingsdale with little or no formal music qualifications - my daughter knows several friends who got them just for singing well, with no previous lessons. Testing your innate musical 'ear' is part of the audition: my daughter remembers having to sing back a tune, clap a rhythm and answer a few basic questions about a piece of music they played on the piano, even though she was there to play guitar (she was slightly horrified at being made to sing as she hadn't expected it!). I think they are looking for kids who are keen and show promise above all - though obviously if a child can already demonstrate some technical ability on an instrument then that will help.

It's a great programme if you can get onto it - my daughter has had free weekly one-to-one or two-to-one music lessons throughout her whole time at the school, plus the opportunity to join larger ensembles (and she only got a half scholarship). Kingsdale will arrange - and I think pay - for you to do the music grades through the school. They also run free lunchtime theory sessions if you want to do the theory exams. It's a really very strong music department and I can't fault them - my daughter's scholarship guitar lessons carried on through Zoom all through lockdown. She's just had her last one and is doing her music GCSE next week!

[newbestfriend]

What is the criteria for entry to Haberdashers? East Dulwich is well outside the catchment but have kids got in through a music scholarship route. Is distance irrelevant with that route?

[BellendenBear]

Haberdashers offer some music places. Unlike Kingsdale, if your child is offered a scholarship and you put them as first choice you are guaranteed a place, distance doesn?t come into it. The scholarship involves an aural test and a certain number of kids are then offered an audition where they play/sing 2 pieces.

[SR]

Admission details are on the school sites, I think it?s around 15% who get in via scholarship at Kingsdale and that?s split between music and sport. Intake numbers vary but if 300 that?s about 23 kids in on a music scholarship. They run auditions every sat and Sunday for 1-2 mths, I estimate around 2-300 kids are applying for these places. Haberdashers has 10% of intake as does Prendergast so about 20 and 12 places respectively again there many kids applying, I estimated around a 1 in 10 chance.

Kingsdale offer far more scholarships that will be admitted on the music scholarship places, a full scholarship doesn't guarantee a place you have to be in the top 15% and you that out in March on offer day. One of the teachers there said they can have 100 music scholars start each year as so many scholarships are given, but only a small number have actually got in on scholarship places, many scholars are admitted through the normal random allocation route.

A teacher at Kingsdale told me a grade 3 with feeling is better than a grade 4 when i asked if you have to be at grade 4. We did do a bit of practice to get used to the types of aural questions before the test - https://music-lessons.teachable.com/p/the-musical-aptitude-practice-test-a-free-online-example-mat , kid will have to have a musical ?ear? as mentioned above but a bit of familiarisation just before the exam wouldn?t harm. I would also recommend seeing what?s happening in your local music hub https://www.southwarkmusicservice.org.uk/ the experience will help grow their skills and they will be comfortable playing in front of others.

Very long winded way of saying ? music aptitude is more important than grades but there will be a lot of kids with aptitude applying and due to number of applicants many talented kids wont secure a scholarship place. For me the best thing you can do is encourage a love of music, a kid who is into it and will enjoy participating in the school?s music activities is one of the things they are looking for. Good luck, I am glad we are through it!

[Swans]

If it's not too far, I would suggest looking at Deptford Green too. It's one of the biggest music schools, if I remember correctly, and I think every Year 7 learner gets free tuition in an instrument. They also have a very creative curriculum and from hear-say and a quick visit to the school, it seems like a good option.

[lastminute.mum]

My son had a full music scholarship at Kingsdale (he was also offered one at Haberdashers but had already set his heart on Kingsdale because his friends wanted to go there too).

I feel rather cynical about the whole thing - yes, they will take on vocalists with no formal training but a great ear, but then they don?t offer them the chance to learn any other instruments. You have to stick with what you know. My son was already a proficient guitar and piano player. He specialised in guitar while there and it felt like the school was keen to take credit for the hours of private tuition he?d already had and continued to have outside school. He was offered a 30 minute private lesson in school each week but it had to be guitar. At the time he was keen to learn the violin.

He transferred to the BRIT as soon as he could in year 10 and has just completed Year 13, aiming for a career in the music industry (my view on the BRIT: fantastic vocationally but lousy academically)

[Jellybeanz]

theratprincess Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My child got music scholarships to Haberdashers

> and Kingsdale, starting at Kingsdale next year.

> They played two instruments - one Grade 5, one

> Grade 4. I was informed by various local music

> teachers that around Grade 5 is their experience

> of the level that past pupils got in at.

>

> Various of my child?s friends who are good

> musicians with more than one instrument at Grade 2

> or 3 did not get any scholarships at Kingsdale,

> not even a half scholarship and ended up on the

> waiting list or with nothing at Haberdashers.

>

> I heard though that this year was an unusually

> high standard due to a larger number of private

> school applicants.

>

> These schools have to say they?re just looking for

> raw aptitude, but I?m really sceptical about that.

I had same experience - I know someone who got half a scholarship (she didn't get a place as a scholarship does not guarantee a place!) and she sang and played piano (grade 5).

I believe grades actually do matter. My son is grade 4 piano but they wanted grade 5. They also look for 2 instruments (or 1 instrument + singing).

The actual places are a complete lottery. So whereas most schools go on distance - which I think is generally the fairest way of doing it and ensures places for local children - Kingsdale take children from all over London at any distance.

They take a certain number from each banding so your child will do a banding test for entry.

It is a highly sought after school so good luck!

[Dulwichwitch]

Hi- hoping to resurrect this topic. I was wondering if anyone had any more recent experiences of the scholarship process and information they could share? i'd really appreciate any recent insights as we go into the process this September.

Edited July 26 by Dulwichwitch