Where do cyclists cross lordship lane safely?

[edcam]

Struggling to understand the OP. Teach your kids to dismount and push their bikes on pavements and pedestrian crossings. Who knows, they may then grow up to be considerate cyclists?

[Pugwash]

Dismount at pedestrian crossings/traffic lights and walk across. Do not do as many adults and kids do=- cycle across the lights etc getting in the way of pedestrians especially those wheeling prams and have young children in tow. Also not cutting up wheelchair users. Fed up with these antics at the LL Plough lights.

[smooch]

Still trying to work out the OP's problem

[Otto2]

Hi Jakido -

I often cross Lordship Lane by bicycle and it is probably too tricky for kids without dismounting and using a pedestrian crossing as recommended above. Near Melbourne Grove/Colwell there is often a good break of traffic, and less parking/side distractions (people opening parked car doors/deliveries etc), but, not recommended for small people as cars sometimes approach at good speed around there.

[TJ]

Jakido Wrote:

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> Across the road...

Surely a joke post... right?

You?ve managed to negotiate Life, love and relationships and had kids, but crossing a road (where traffic for the most parts does about 20mph) has defeated you? Come on.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Apparently Lordship Lane is constantly gridlocked with stationary traffic as a result of their not being given total dominance over every single inch of space (just 90% of it) - so crossing LL shouldn't'be a problem.

[tedfudge]

All children walking or riding a bicycle should ALWAYS use the safest places to cross and that is traffic lights and zebra crossings

Remember the GREEN MAN ADVERTS

[Penguin68]

Maybe they might cross Lordship Lane safely (assuming they are on the road and want to cross over to, e.g. enter a side street) by properly signalling a turn? When I was a child, and cycled, my parents refused to allow me on the public road until I could demonstrate that I could cycle with one hand whilst signalling a turn with the other. Granted there was less traffic in those days, but in towns it went at 30 mph (and there was less other traffic to impede it). I rarely see cyclists hand signal now (if I do it tends to be by people in my baby-boomer generation.

The traffic in Lordship Lane is (1) generally slow - most people do stick to the 20mph limit - if only because the weight of traffic forces them to, and (2) there are numbers of stop points (all the crossings and lights) to slow traffic further. I can hardly think of a safer place for cyclists who can (and will) signal their intentions to manoeuvre. But they have to be competent cyclists, well trained. In my day that included school children, who regularly cycled to school.

The Green Cross code was about (generally) younger children crossing roads - it assumed that children who were cyclists would be able to cycle on public streets because they had trained to be able to do so, first gaining cycling skills and then road usage skills.

[Chunx]

Dismount and walk across a pedestrian crossing

[Raeburn]

@Jakaido perhaps the free cycle training from Southwark could be of use?

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/active-travel/training/cycle-with-confidence

They have many different levels of training, but I understand they can review a daily route, suggest alternatives if suitable, and then ride with the trainee(s) to take them through routes/light changes at junctions. It could be worth checking if there?s more friends/students needing to cross LL and book a school group on?

If you do look into this, be great to know how it goes.

[redpost]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Maybe they might cross Lordship Lane safely

> (assuming they are on the road and want to cross

> over to, e.g. enter a side street) by properly

> signalling a turn? When I was a child, and cycled,

> my parents refused to allow me on the public road

> until I could demonstrate that I could cycle with

> one hand whilst signalling a turn with the other.

> Granted there was less traffic in those days, but

> in towns it went at 30 mph (and there was less

> other traffic to impede it). I rarely see cyclists

> hand signal now (if I do it tends to be by people

> in my baby-boomer generation.

>

> The traffic in Lordship Lane is (1) generally slow

> - most people do stick to the 20mph limit - if

> only because the weight of traffic forces them to,

> and (2) there are numbers of stop points (all the

> crossings and lights) to slow traffic further. I

> can hardly think of a safer place for cyclists who

> can (and will) signal their intentions to

> manoeuvre. But they have to be competent cyclists,

> well trained. In my day that included school

> children, who regularly cycled to school.

>

> The Green Cross code was about (generally) younger

> children crossing roads - it assumed that children

> who were cyclists would be able to cycle on public

> streets because they had trained to be able to do

> so, first gaining cycling skills and then road

> usage skills.

The state of the roads (potholes, sunken drains etc) means that I want both hands on the bike as much as possible. I used to signal all the time, but it's just too dangerous now and I will only do so when absolutely needed (right turn, filter into right hand lane etc)

[malumbu]

Coincidentally my worst cycle accident was on Red Post Hill when I was involved in a hit and run, a car went over the crossroads with Denmark Hill at speed and hit me cycling down the hill, sending me into a parked car. The bike was trashed rather than me, but the driver may have thought that I was dead and didn't hang around. I hope it wasn't you Red Post. It may have been a red Mercedes CLK, E reg. I see one around Dulwich from time to time which always makes me wonder. Do PM me if this is your car (or you would like to know why I suspect it was this car).

The owner of the car that I had hit came out of the house, helped me to recover, and kindly drove me home with the smashed bike. I was similarly rescued once on the Brixton Road, so I should contact that programme on Radio 4 on a Saturday morning to thank both drivers.

[hammerman]

redpost: I wondered why there are suddenly a lot of dithering bike users suddenly pulling out in front of me. No signals etc. just expecting that a car driver on a normal road can read their intentions!

[Pugwash]

Witnessed today whilst crossing LL by the Plough, 2 adults with 3 children (appearing to be primary age) on bikes coming from Eynella - all crossing road whilst green man light on and ignoring safety of pedestrians.

[redpost]

hammerman Wrote:

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> redpost: I wondered why there are suddenly a lot

> of dithering bike users suddenly pulling out in

> front of me. No signals etc. just expecting that

> a car driver on a normal road can read their

> intentions!

You need both hands on handlebars to get sufficient torque when starting from static.

It's pretty obvious they're starting up, and need to pull into the traffic lane, so why do you need a handsignal for intentions?

Of course, it's unknown for cars in london to pull out suddenly or cut you up.

[hammerman]

I can't begin to recall the amount of cyclists not just in Southwark that can't be bothered with hand signals, jumping the lights etc. There are plenty of cycle lanes that have been brought in by the Labour run Southwark Council but that doesn't seem enough for cyclists.

[alex_b]

I can?t begin to recall the amount of drivers not just in Southwark that can?t be bothered with signals, jumping the lights etc. Not to mention speeding, using mobile phones, ignoring zebra crossings. Then when a few of them get fined for ignoring road closure signs they get all upset across four different forum threads.

[Brixtwich]

That is absolute nonsense. Cyclists are much more dangerous to pedestrians at the moment, they don't give a monkeys and never get fined. At least car drivers are accountable.

[DuncanW]

Brixtwich, that doesn?t tally with anything I have seen or read. I don?t suppose you have any data to back that up, or is it just your own personal view?

[Monkey]

Brixtwich, nonsense! I see cars speeding and driving dangerously every single day. Drivers are NOT accountable as there?s never anybody to catch them and challenge the behaviour.

[alex_b]

Brixtwich Wrote:

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> That is absolute nonsense. Cyclists are much more

> dangerous to pedestrians at the moment, they don't

> give a monkeys and never get fined. At least car

> drivers are accountable.

In what way are car drivers really accountable. I see drivers using hand held mobiles every time I?m out, absolutely zero enforcement. The same with speeding through all the 20 zones around here.

As for cyclists being more dangerous. The latest TfL figures are 2019 which showed that in London cars caused 11,911 injuries including 64 fatalities (of which 40 were pedestrians). Cyclists caused 327 injuries including two fatalities. (table 7 https://content.tfl.gov.uk/casualties-in-greater-london-2019.pdf). I?d be amazed if cars had become 40 times safer or cyclists 40 times more dangerous during lockdown.

[alice]

Interesting stats but am wondering whether, as bike journeys are 1% of vehicular miles, then when casualty numbers are adjusted the results are quite different.

[Jakido]

This data doesn?t show who ?caused? an accident, just what other vehicle was involved, eg if a drunk car driver crashed into a stationary bus and was injured, the bus would be the other vehicle.

[Jakido]

Something like this would be more helpful in understanding the cause of deaths https://content.tfl.gov.uk/pedestrian-fatalities-in-london.pdf

[alex_b]

Jakido Wrote:

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> This data doesn?t show who ?caused? an accident,

> just what other vehicle was involved, eg if a

> drunk car driver crashed into a stationary bus and

> was injured, the bus would be the other vehicle.

Good point I phrased that poorly. What it does is put an upper bound on the cause numbers. 40 pedestrians were killed in 2019 having been hit by a car, two people were killed after a collision with a cyclist.