Where do cyclists cross lordship lane safely?

[alex_b]

alice Wrote:

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> Interesting stats but am wondering whether, as

> bike journeys are 1% of vehicular miles, then when

> casualty numbers are adjusted the results are

> quite different.

Is that passenger mile figure from London or does it include motorway miles which would skew the figure? The numbers I could find for London (http://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-report-12.pdf Table 2.2) was 6.2m car journeys a day (driver trips plus taxis) vs 700k cycle journeys. So even on a journey adjusted basis collisions involving cars have 4 times more injuries and fatalities than collisions involving cyclists. I think this is straining what these data can tell us, but I can find any evidence that cyclists are more dangerous to pedestrians than cars as was claimed.

[DuncanW]

Jakido, that's a big ol' document there, is there a summary of key points?

[Earl Aelfheah]

I can't believe anyone would seriously argue that bikes pose more of a threat to others than motor vehicles. You just have to look at the size, speed and weight of cars (as well as the toxic fumes emitted), to see that this is nonsense.

[cwjlawrence]

More than 9,000 people in the capital were dying early each year due to dirty air in 2015. I don?t think that being hit by a car is what you should be worrying about.

Stop driving = Save lives

Of course the deaths due to pollution are probably more likely caused by all of the hot air emanating from the East Dulwich Forum than car exhausts!

[Penguin68]

Stop driving = Save lives

Although around half of the pollutants generated in London (although much pollution in London comes from outside London) come from vehicles - this is primarily diesel vehicles (NOx) - so significantly public and commercial transport, not domestic vehicles (the most polluting of which are being excluded by tariffs on them).

It is domestic vehicles which are the targets of LTNs however, as are all the main actions of Southwark. If you are to quote the 9000 deaths associated with pollution these are not (mainly) to be laid at the doors of private vehicle owners - but rather those running diesel buses, trains and commercial vehicles - which achieve the most significant daily mileage (many private vehicles kept in ED are mainly weekend use, or for very short trips, generally, in my experience).

[kford]

Why is this a thread?

[DuncanW]

You really believe all of that?

Although it's true that one diesel powered bus emits more pollutants than one diesel powered car, try comparing how that looks when you compare emissions per mile travelled per person. You mention trains - trains have significantly lower emissions per mile travelled per person than buses or cars.

Are you aware that LEZ (ULEZ for lorries) came in to force in 2008?

Have you seen any of the Hybrid, Electric or Hydrogen Fuel Cell buses in London? Those three types make up just under half the TFL bus fleet.

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Stop driving = Save lives

>

> Although around half of the pollutants generated

> in London (although much pollution in London comes

> from outside London) come from vehicles - this is

> primarily diesel vehicles (NOx) - so significantly

> public and commercial transport, not domestic

> vehicles (the most polluting of which are being

> excluded by tariffs on them).

>

> It is domestic vehicles which are the targets of

> LTNs however, as are all the main actions of

> Southwark. If you are to quote the 9000 deaths

> associated with pollution these are not (mainly)

> to be laid at the doors of private vehicle owners

> - but rather those running diesel buses, trains

> and commercial vehicles - which achieve the most

> significant daily mileage (many private vehicles

> kept in ED are mainly weekend use, or for very

> short trips, generally, in my experience).

[Penguin68]

one diesel powered bus emits more pollutants than one diesel powered car, try comparing how that looks when you compare emissions per mile travelled per person

(1) - Most buses (all buses?) no longer travel full, or even half full often, because of Covid Restrictions. [This is relevant because the restrictions were brought in (partly as) a response to Covid.]

(2) - Buses travel for (I'm guessing, of course) 15 to 18 hours a day in continuous use (as do many commercial vehicles) - private cars far less than that - and many private cars are petrol not diesel (and quite a few now fully electric or hybrid).

You need to consider here not passenger miles but vehicle miles when looking at what's polluting London. Most people in London will use public transport where they can (because it's easier) but private vehicles where they can't/ where the time taken for a journey is very different. We are comparatively poorly served, for an 'inner' London borough by public transport (that's on record).

[Administrator]

Lounged

[Jakido]

-- moved topic --

[Pugwash]

Cyclists riding on pavements can also cause injury. My elderly aunt was knocked down by a teenage cyclist outside what is now Salisbury's Local in LL. She suffered a fractured hip and other complications which reduced her quality of life as was afraid of going out alone.

[Nigello]

Agreed, Pugwash, yet if one dares challenge even "nice" riders (the ones who think that having a child on board or nearby allows them to ride on footpaths), expect eye rolls or entitled nastiness. I am pro-cycling but only when it does not impact badly on those who don't or can't cycle.

[tedfudge]

Had a cyclist looking down at their phone and riding bike with one hand not looking where they were and wobbling all over the place and worse of all on the wrong side of the road last night when I was driving to work I had to stop and flash my lights to get attention as also had headphones on an when rode pass me had the cheek call me a c##t .. it's not the first time I've had cyclists who think because they are on a bike can ride where they want and how they want.. seen many drunk people riding boris bikes all over the road and still drinking from bottles and cans while doing so...

[malumbu]

I liked the bumper sticker which said 'no hand signals driver [self abusing]', it made me chuckle. [The 'm' word but thought best to paraphrase].

[Pugwash]

Crossing from the Florist to the Plough side on the green man, was nearly mowed down by an adult with 2 children, the younger child passed me but the adult had to shout to an older child to stop before she crashed into me. I said to the adult that they had no right cycling through a green man but she just ignored me and carried on directing the children across Barry Road into Etherow Street. It was around 4 pm and traffic was building up in the area.

[malumbu]

Hi Pugwash, this thread is about cyclists crossing the road. Do start a separate one on cyclists running red lights.

I wasn't going to post but cycled to the shops at school closing time. What a lot of awful drivers (not aimed at parents, but generally). Any free space on the roads and foot on the accelerator. I saw a mother and two kids cycling on the pavement and thought that if it wasn't for entitled motorists who don't care for other road users, these cyclists would not be on the pavement.

Drivers not obeying the highway code far more dangerous the cyclists. Not that two wrongs make a right, so not excusing cyclists for hassling pedestrians.