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[spacehopper]

I Edited February 14, 2023 by spacehopper

[ab29]

Fines should be introduced - make them pay ?1000 and I'm sure next time they will remember to take their rubbish with them. I would also add a few months of a community service.

spacehopper Wrote:

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> If any of the Littering B@@@@@@ds that can't be

> bothered to clear up after they've enjoyed

> themselves on the Rye are reading this....PLEASE

> take your rubbish home with you - leaving it on

> the ground "near" the bins is NOT GOOD ENOUGH you

> filthy individuals..

[Chick]

Maybe send them to a gulag in Siberia.

[malumbu]

There are many worse things than littering, like mass slaughter and human activities causing a climate emergency.

I expect that most of us don't litter and are equally appalled. But a sizeable minority wont really care.

This will not be high on the political agenda, the police will not feel that it is their job to enforce so not sure what the answer is (beyond education, good citizenship and nudge).

You can always challenge someone along the lines "do you mind putting your rubbish in the bin/in your car ashtray/take home" in a polite Sergeant Wilson way. I've used more direct language in the past, and occasionally thrown a lit cigarette through the window of the car that dropped it, but wouldn't recommend it.

Otherwise not sure you will get a critical mass of protest by posting here.

[gabys1st]

I do an "excuse me..did you know that you have dropped something/left something behind".. more often than not it works.

[ab29]

Excellent idea. Will definitely be a good riddance :)

Chick Wrote:

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> Maybe send them to a gulag in Siberia.

[Zak]

Here?s the New Zealand approach.....

[malumbu]

Shows how well informed we are - the don't be a tosser message has been used in the UK - shame that you only noticed it in NZ - although I am unaware who has the IPR.

Here's the UK campaign. General note for all people on this site, much better for positive threads rather than ones that complain and suggest locking all perpetrators up.

https://www.keepbritaintidy.org/sites/default/files/resource/Don%27t%20be%20a%20tosser%20-%20order%20form_0.pdf

There has been lots done on nudges to change behaviour - the classics are the spot blokes wee at in urinals to reduced splash back and weeing on the floor (blokes seem to like target practice), texts reminding you to pay bills, fines etc which quote the high numbers that do pay (be cool and join the majority), and texts to parents encouraging them to help kids doing assignments etc rather than letters telling them off. There are signs in national parks along the lines please don't spoil this lovely landscape, text your rubbish home. There is a fine line between humour, encouraging good citizenship, sarcasm and downright passive aggressive messages.

[rachp]

There is a lot that could be done but there is not much political will at local or national level. Southwark haven?t issued littering fines in the last three years, according to stats released recently. Just been to Wimbledon common and Richmond park today and both were spotless so it?s sad to hear the Rye is getting trashed again, it?s so unnecessary. The piling your rubbish next to the bins thing drives me bonkers, but I do think a clever campaign could change the perception that this is somehow acceptable. People think that?s not litter and justify it to themselves. More bins would help too. It is worth going to councillors on this stuff as they need to know people are bothered for any kind of chance of it being treated as a priority.

[malumbu]

Unfair comparison with Richmond and Wimbledon as very different demographics - sadly that is a material issue.

[rachp]

That is true, and I was mostly just reflecting on how nice it was to go for a walk and not get distracted by litter. However, I think the demographics aren?t 100% to account for behaviour. Dulwich park is in a pretty affluent area and there are plenty of people who pile up rubbish around the bins there.

[malumbu]

Richmond and Wimbledon are massive parks and more of an effort to get to, so most I would expect value a litter free park more than others. Or perhaps there are more litter bins there or more of an effort to publicise how litter spoils an area. Anyway some casual views, not defending anyone, my main concern is that it is a sizeable minority who don't care. It doesn't take much effort not to do it.

[johnie]

The bins on the Rye are small bins for small amounts of rubbish. When we have football matches with supporters they are not adequate. I applaud the people who try to clean up, but then find they can't fit the rubbish in the bin, so leave it close. It won't be their rubbish alone. Can't we just have a few industrial-sized bins each weekend?

However, leaving crap in the park and not even bothering to get it close to a bin. My goat is got.

[rachp]

I think the council could/should put out more bins but I also think we need a mindset shift. People rock up to the park with a bag full of stuff for a picnic and expect that there is bin space for them to leave it in before they go home. And if there isn?t, they feel entitled to dump it next to the bin. Once too many people do that, the place does quite literally look like a rubbish dump. Is that really what our parks are for? And once the wind and wildlife have got hold, they might as well have dumped it anywhere.

[malumbu]

Interesting the comments on football, I helped manage a youth team for years and no matter how often you reminded people we'd still have to go round after the match picking up litter chucked by players and their parents. And following my comments on demographics this was an educated/professional lot. I expect the excitement of the matches people forgot.

[Nigello]

After I had complained to the DV councillor (one of them) and to the park officials, extra bins were put in. My suggestion to double up the smaller bins at pinch points wasn't heeded, as wasn't putting up posters on the bins already there to get people to take the rubbish away with them. Gail's could burnish its credentials by sending out a staff member (on their time, not volunteering) to tidy up once or twice a week, but maybe they don't see the value of that as much as the value of their ?5 breads and ?3 coffees?

[rachp]

Ha, if ever there was evidence that no demographic is immune, it?s the Gails coffee cups you see everywhere. I have also been lobbying hard to the council about a number of things including posters on bins but to no avail- they have outright refused to do it. I also think being more strategic about pinch points would be smart....

[rachp]

Well done for getting the bins in though Nigello! Shows it?s worth trying. I?ve also had great support from James McAsh on getting more done to clean up after the Saturday market on North x road. Every little counts!

[malumbu]

There is something to say about countries that make the retailer or manufacturer responsible for the product through it's lifetime (the fag companies and McD's would have a major job on related to litter associated with them) but at the same time (a libertarian right view) abdicates personal responsibility.

Not sure what the answer is. I suspect that most using Gails wouldn't throw their crisp packets on the pavement or out of the window of their car after visiting the corner shop. But behave differently in other circumstances.

But I've only been there once and still scarred by the prices.

[rachp]

It?s got to be a community plus authority plus business partnership. Govt. can do something in terms of education and campaigns, they made it socially unacceptable to drink-drive, not wear a seatbelt etc and this could be done on litter. As you said Malumbu, I think most reasonable people don?t just drop litter but there are certain circumstances when they either litter or do things that contribute to litter. Cigarettes are a great example of situation specific littering. And KBT did a great campaign on it in Manchester where they got people to think about dropping a cigarette butt differently- they just hadn?t thought about it as litter but the campaign reframed it quite successfully. But obviously it?s not going to make a difference if it?s only done in Manchester! Councils can be smart with infrastructure e.g. bins- the bins outside co-op were completely full at 10am this morning and of course, it was a mess by this afternoon. It will probably be worse by tomorrow morning. Why wouldn?t you empty the bins on a daily basis on a street as busy as Lordship Lane? They will only have to clear it up tomorrow. And in the meantime, they?ve sent out a message that we are ok with litter, it?s not really a priority. It all contributes to the psychology of littering. And orgs can fund coordinated campaigns- I think the government are trying to do this with cigarette producers at the moment. Community is massive, if people take pride in looking after their neighbourhood, I think this is pretty contagious if it?s visible. Some of the communities on the Kent coast have done an amazing job of fighting back on litter. If other countries can achieve the right culture around this, then it is possible. But it needs to be prioritised at all levels

[Pugwash]

Many years ago, BARA (Barry Area Residents' Association) were fed up seeing litter down a small alley off Underhill Road and we managed to get money/ interest to purchase litter pickers/Womble masks and high vis waistcoats and spent a day clearing the site. We were helped by the Refuse Section of Southwark (it was not under Veiola then) who provided bins. Local shopkeepers and residents kept us supplied to drinks and cakes etc. BARA attracted alot of attention in clearing this 'grot spot' and if I remember correctly, also attracted local press with write ups and photos.

Suggest a group of volunteers wear highly visible/eccentric clothing make a point of clearing up the area and being vocal as to why they are doing this.

[Nigello]

I agree. An individual can both make a change and make a point simply by picking up litter and not caring if others are watching. It may trigger something in a potential litterer or potential litter picker-upper.

[JohnL]

So a quick google and I found this ..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/fighting-the-dirty-war-94616.html

Wonder what happened to the Street Enforcment Academy and Simon Baxter and his team.

[Sue]

We should have a zero tolerance policy.

Like New York did.

Maybe.

[malumbu]

New York, an interesting example. Giuliani was lauded for his zero tolerance policy that led to the city becoming much safer.

Yet what to we think of him now? Sweating, hair dye running and Trump's failed (and imaginary)legal challenges.