Why are no cycle lanes being put in on East dulwich

[alice]

I don?t know if it?s the tv programmes I watch but there are so many ads for massive cars that head into the mountains with laughing cyclists at the wheel.

[barbyonabike]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cyclists worried about drivers on mobile phones

> can take pictures, upload these, and send to the

> Met. Rather an extreme measure, but one of my

> colleagues was really into it, and even went to

> court as a witness once

How is reporting a crime an extreme measure?

[malumbu]

Extreme - as in this chap has become rather obsessed. We can all go around with head cams looking to record anti social and illegal activity. There is a limit on how much information from the general public can be handled by the authorities I expect - although others may argue that in this 'surveillance society' there is the capability. We are not yet the former East Germany. He also reckons that the police had made is so easy for road users to share video footage the system had been changed to make this a little more difficult.

Gas guzzlers are hammered in the first year excise duty, but the fixed rate (?155) for following years is not based on carbon emissions, which is a bit rubbish. Those over ?40k pay an extra ?335 for the next five years. The fixed rate of ?155 is the same as it was in 2000, so essentially has not kept pace with inflation, fuel duty hasn't either. In real terms excise duty is much lower that when I learned to drive. The general view of government's not wishing to 'alienate' car owners seems to stem from the 2000 fuel protests, and I consider has not helped the environment.

For a three litre Range Rover excise duty can exceed ?2k for the first year, but his is for a vehicle costing upwards of ?80k, and I expect most are on lease deals, so doubt whether this puts people off.

[tedfudge]

While driving around at night as that is my job delivering between hours of 1am and 7am 7 days a week I see quite a few cyclists even on my way to work riding through red lights looking at phones riding drunk on boris bikes and riding with no lights on their bikes all of which if I was to be doing in charge of a motor vehicle would rightly be arrested fined banned points etc but cyclists get away with so much.. cyclists saying I shouldn't pay road tax as I'm already paying tax well so am I and many others but still have to pay road tax for the privilege to drive on roads that are being closed made smaller by bus lanes and cycle lanes .. it's a vicious circle for everyone and it's not going to please everybody no matter what happens ... and dont particularly care what road tax is now called as far as im concerned still road tax

[Spartacus]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What would make us all safer would be some social

> pressure on those driving around in pseudo

> military vehicles / SUVs. Their bonnet height,

> general size and weight, and ability to mount

> pavements when out of control is ridiculous. They

> have no place in cities yet seem to becoming the

> go to vehicle for Dulwichites. We used to laugh at

> Americans for driving around in these things. How

> about quadrupling their VED?

On this there is no argument, it's madness in built up areas and half of their owners can't park for toffee so end up taking up one and a half spaces (either length or width)

[Nigello]

Car drivers/owners who point blank refuse to park up the extremes of the parking areas are so annoying. So much time is spent looking for car parking spaces - why leave a gap at the white line when there is already maneouvering room built in?

[tedfudge]

you talking about parking some disabled bay drivers are just as bad this is a person who parks in barry road nearly everyday this person parks like this not just 4x4 drivers ( i dont own a 4x4 by the way ) so not defending them

[jamesmcash]

Hi all,

We Goose Green councillors have just allocated funding for a feasibility study into a cycle lane on East Dulwich Grove, and for changes to the physical infrastructure around East Dulwich station, to make it more cycle friendly but also to make it more attractive and inviting.

Best wishes

James

[Otto2]

Thanks James -

If it were properly segregated it would be amazing! Also - I really think a little engagement with the private schools re: having students cycle or walk for the "last mile" or whatever would substantially reduce traffic locally. Perhaps a few local drop points combined with rental bikes...

[malumbu]

Encouraging schools to increase active travel goes back decades and there will be targets to reverse kids being driven to school. I expect that this doesn't apply to private schools. I've seen and witnessed many great projects but for some reason this doesn't get to critical mass. One barrier is parents driving their kids to school because they fear it is too dangerous to walk due to the traffic, that they are adding too. Not sure how you break that cycle.

Was going to post last night as on the way cycling to Belair to pick up home tests, foolishly in rush hour, a driver switched from stationary traffic queuing to turn right into the free moving traffic to the left, ie me, and I was so nearly knocked off. Nothing to do with the LTN, simply not checking first. Well I am alive and they are not in the cells following a charge of causing death by reckless driving so that is good news. But I was thinking just before this what a reasonable route it is as cyclists going on the South Circ to Dulwich College can cycle on the shared pavement.

(not had a near miss like that for years, and was surprised how quickly I stopped without loosing control with a minor swerve)

[sanda]

James, that is good news! There are lots of sections of EDG where there is already ample space for a segregated cycle lane, including outside Alleyns, JAGs etc. And on village way after the junction. Also, the speed that cars race down from the Townley junction and round the curve on EDG is terrifying. If you can improve this we could get as a family from ED all the way through to the schools and village safely without using the pavements.

[alice]

When there?s a bike lane, and a bus lane cars can be redirected thru Calton / court lane.

[vmdgg]

jamesmcash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We Goose Green councillors have just allocated

> funding for a feasibility study into a cycle lane

> on East Dulwich Grove, and for changes to the

> physical infrastructure around East Dulwich

> station, to make it more cycle friendly but also

> to make it more attractive and inviting.

That is great news James!

[Nigello]

Why is a cycle lane needed? Are there not bus lanes already to provide a cycle route by default? Please do not waste money if it is a case of doubling up. It is just performative nonsense. If, though, there are not already lines for buses/taxis/cycles, it may be a good idea, but haven't we got to the point, or near it, that most people who will have thought of cycling will have taken it up? Ie. where else can money be spent to achieve the goal of less congestion and noxious emissions?

[Otto2]

Nigello -

Segregated cycle lanes are a game changer. The increase in perceived safety means more cyclists of every age and ability.

[Abe_froeman]

It's a very good point Nigello.

If the council believe there is a need for a cycle lane on this road then that is an admission from them that cycling measures they have already put in have failed.

[Nigello]

Yes, as I said, segregation is good (in this case) so if the bus lane, with its 6 foot+ width and nice, thick line already provides such separation, performative road painting will be both pointless and wasteful.

[Otto2]

If you design it right (curb?), it will be traversable by young and old, and less confident cyclists. If you look at Copenhagen's lanes - those work. I agree with you that performative road painting is pointless and wasteful - it does not provide what is needed for perceived safety and more uptake.

[Nigello]

The council ought to take into the account factors such as fewer people travelling into work and fewer people being able to afford to buy new bicycles before committing money to the more expensive aids to encouraging people to cycle. Why spend all that money on, say, raised kerbs, etc. when there are likely not going to be as high a number of users as in a non-pandemic situation. By all means, encourage, but do so only after all factors are taken into account. (As for waste - the on-road perforated kerbs and removable posts to extend pavements outside schools are beginning to disintegrate and disappear, respectfully. Nobody CBA, as far as I can see, to make sure this makeshift measure is upkept, so the money that was invested is not getting the same kind of payback as was originally planned.)

[malumbu]

It's sad that we need to segregate cyclists for their safety. Denmark is not the best comparator as cycling is now integrated into their national psyche and I expect that space allows for easier segregation. Copenhagen is so impressive and trumps it's nearest rivals in the Netherlands. France and I expect Italy have respect for cyclists, maybe because this was so important for getting around after the war, but also due to the sporting tradition (although you could say the same about the UK up till the 60s).

Since affordable motoring from that date cyclists are seen as second class citizens by the majority of people in this country. You have to break that barrier. I expect there are good examples of a change in direction elsewhere - Spain?? Many Spanish cities seem to have integrated bikes into their road network much better.

Here's a nice blog: (I was looking for a newsreel from the 50s of workers arriving in the shipyards etc - mainly by bike and on foot) http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2010/7/29/once-upon-a-time-britain-had-a-bike-culture.html

[Otto2]

A lot of local traffic on East Dulwich road is school-run generated. Much existing cycle infrastructure is geared toward travelling into town, for work. In particular, parents and children would benefit from East/West cycle routes and segregated lanes will be necessary for encouraging. Active travel benefits everyone health wise and will also help with climate change, too many cars, etc...

I don't have time to go back and forth on this and pretty certain your mind is made up so I will not be adding more here but will continue to read your perspective without commenting further.

[Penguin68]

If you look at Copenhagen's lanes

Copenhagen is (a) relatively flat and (b) has extremely wide streets - for an 'old' city. I still have seen accidents involving cyclists there, however - though mainly involving pedestrians or other cyclists. The roads in ED are generally much narrower.

I am still in favour of the 'experiment' which opens the full width of the road, including pavements, to a mix of traffic - cars, pedestrians, two wheels - and without signage - other than directions - or road markings.

This forces all road users to be mindful and cautious. However, it is not possible where street parking is allowed - so having proper car parks for those who need to stop in areas is a necessary corollary.

[malumbu]

Otto - there is some helpful debate on this thread which is not toxic/polarised like others on this site. Please continue!

Hills don't bother me and shouldn't for the masses, anyway that is why we have e bikes!

Barriers are the weather, which you generally get used to, changing facilities, what to wear, obviously road safety - where I still believe that irresponsible motoring is the major factor, and for me cycle security.

I've posted lots in pre-LTN days on cycling including my own stats on safety where many accidents were no other vehicles involved ie dangerous road surfaces, mechanical failure or worse still me dicking around. Most road users get on fine.

On using the whole width for shared space it has been tried in the UK but can't find the main articles, from memory disappointingly it was not the panacea, but others may have better knowledge. Here is one relevant article: https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/mixing-cars-cyclists-pedestrians-exhibition-road-london-s-take-shared-space/33809/ I'm sure I've seen stuff from LCC or Sustrans.

[Penguin68]

Hills don't bother me and shouldn't for the masses

How lucky for you that you are neither elderly, frail, arthritic, asthmatic or otherwise 'disabled'. Pray that none of these guests come to visit.

[malumbu]

No need to patronise me, as I've said that is what e bikes are for ie when my body starts to give up. I just posted that his was a much nicer thread than many others, why ruin it?