Lunatic roaming East Dulwich road

[pkpickles]

Hi, sorry - first time posting, not sure if this is the right subforum for this.

Has anyone encountered a complete lunatic roaming East Dulwich Road the past few nights, roaring obscenities at people, trying to start fights/back people against walls, smashing his fists on parked cars and standing in the middle of the road trying to stop traffic and get into people's moving cars?

He's about 6 foot tall, black, wearing dark clothes and a white hat with earflaps. I saw him this morning at 6am when I was waiting for the bus and he roared "GOOD MORNING YOU C**T" at me, then strided across the road towards me shouting obscenities. He then tried to attack the newsagent who was collecting his morning milk delivery.

I've phoned the police because the guy seems to be mentally unstable and I'm concerned he's going to hurt someone or himself.

I wouldn't recommend approaching him if you see him about!

[pkpickles]

I should add - he's been in the area for 2 or 3 days now.

[mrs.lotte]

Think I saw him about 9am this morning walking in the middle of the road between Goose Green School and ED station.

[pkpickles]

He's very stocky/fat. Carries an extremely small rucksack over his shoulder as well. I haven't seen him attack anyone yet but he's trying very hard to scare people and/or provoke them into a fight. I really recommend avoiding him if you see him coming.

[pkpickles]

So the police finally turned up, he acted all nice, they laughed, then said "You're going home now yeah?" and left. Brilliant.

That was literally 30 seconds after he was roaring "COME HERE BITCH" at two passing women.

[minder]

Thanks for your post and alerting us to this person!

Seems like the police get to know these people but how are we supposed to know?

Same thing happened to my Mum and sister in Morrisons at Camberwell last week. Not saying it was the same person but the whole store was on high alert and it was a frightening situation for a lot of people and this person was very frightening.

The police escorted this person outside Morrisons without any restraint and then just let him go on his way.

[pkpickles]

He's just been arrested and taken away in a police van outside my house (shops on corner of east dulwich rd/gowlett road) at 6:20am this morning, so hopefully he'll get the mental health care he seems to need. I feel quite sorry for the guy but he's pretty scary when he's in full shouting/threatening mode!

[pkpickles]

Also "lunatic" may not have been the most compassionate word to have chosen, apologies

[fl0wer]

I saw a few weeks ago that someone was sleeping rough in that area, slumped against an apartment building's porch. More recently a very end-of-tether, thin lad was running round ED asking householders for casual work, saying the temporary homeless shelters were hell.

As soon as it gets this cold, our common-law duty of care is to see that vulnerable adults get to shelter.

Negotiation is iffy with someone who's probably brain-damaged or severely intoxicated; summon police, rather than risk getting attacked personally;

and

anyone reasonable enough to listen to you, might welcome help to contact an organisation called Emmaus. Their hostel over in W. Norwood does operate a 'dry' policy [no alcohol/other intoxicants].

[reeko]

I agree that we as a society we have a responsibility to protect the vulnerable. I would also like to highlight how the emergency services can also be under-equipped and poorly trained to deal with vulnerable and volatile people.

Sean Rigg was a young man with episodic but severe mental health issues. He lived in housing for people with mental health issues and the police were aware of him and his condition.

Even given these precautions he ended up dead in the back of a police van outside Brixton police station. The police attended in reponse to calls from the public worried about his erratic and violent behaviour in the street - very similar to the behaviour described by the OP.

Sean died after being put in a prone position and restrained by several large police officers sitting on him for several minutes. The officers then colluded and lied to the IPCC and the inquiry, including denying the existence of CCTV footage and lying about when and how often they checked on Sean as he lay in the van.

The officers were branded liars in the inquiry and were named and shamed in the Independent - they all still have their jobs.

The inquiry also branded the IPCC investigation a complete whitewash.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sean-rigg-investigation-ipcc-announces-independent-review-of-its-own-investigation-into-the-death-of-a-mentally-ill-man-in-police-custody-8050023.html

I would really not want to be a young black man with mental health problems in police custody. Sean is not the only person to die in these circumstances.

http://seanriggjusticeandchange.com/Press-Releases.html

[Sam]

fl0wer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As soon as it gets this cold, our common-law duty

> of care is to see that vulnerable adults get to

> shelter.

>

It's been a while since I studied tort but I'd be a bit careful about stating people owe a "common law duty of care" in this context. A duty of care may arise should you attempt to help (you may even be owed one yourself in that circumstance), but I don't recall there being a positive, legal obligation to help such that failure to do so would result in you being vulnerable to an action. It was the "drowning child" analogy back in the day.

There may be a moral duty (or responsibility, as reeko puts it) but I'm not certain there is a legal obligation.

Not saying people shouldn't feel compelled to help; I hope they would do so out of care and compassion for am another human being. It's just I'd be careful telling people they have a legal obligation to do something where there isn't one.

Sorry, that was off topic...

On topic - I'm glad no harm done to folks beyond being shouted out and that this person is hopefully receiving the help he needs.

Didn't know about Emmaus before so it's good to be made aware of their existence and work.

[DirtyBox]

well done reeko! You managed to turn a post about a troubled individual roaming East Dulwich into an "All Coppers Are Murdering Bastards" rant...I'm surprised you didn't mention Nazis too.

[reeko]

Erm - I did not mention anything about 'all coppers' and I did not mention the word murder either, I was deliberately careful to make sure everything in the post was factual - based on findings from an official inquiry, and I included links to one of the articles in the Independent, where you can find details of the inquiry findings for yourself should you care to look. I think you may need to revisit your definition of rant

[Jeremy]

The case reeko mentions is tragic, and it's certainly not the first time somebody's suffered at the hands of heavy handed police.

BUT - if someone is wandering round threatening and abusing people, calling the police is the right thing to do.

[pkpickles]

Have to admit, I'm pretty ashamed of my initial reaction at the time, which was essentially "Someone take this man away from where I live!". He clearly has mental health issues and being locked up in a cell is the last thing he needs.

Hopefully the police have recognised that he's mentally ill and are referring him to the appropriate help.

[fl0wer]

The way I understand it,

when something frightful is happening nearby to a mad-looking person -

instinctively we say "Don't get involved" to ourselves,

and the reaction normally to rough sleepers is to let them get their own difficulties sorted out by their own choice of help, to preserve their dignity etc

but some who are genuinely vulnerable because of mental dysfunction, in the cold weather seem like more of a collective responsibility.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think we forget though (or don't realise/ know) just how hard it is for someone at the lowest end of our society to get back up. I've just finished reading a book called 'A Streetcat Named Bob' and the most striking thing to me from it (and it's a true story) is just how even the homeless are fighting amongst themselves to survive.

We do expect the state to take care of all these tihngs, and mental health issues can be included in that but the state alone is not enough. My view is that we do have a socially collective responsibility to look after those within our local communities who need help. Most of us have far more than we need and most of us are where we are by nothing more than an accident of birth. Ostracisation of anyone from a community because they are poor or suffer from mental health issues is only going to damage them further.

[polla2256]

Dick heads like this piss me off. Hope I dont meet him.

[EJTH]

If you are interested in the work the police are doing with mental health patients/individuals in need of mental health assistance I suggest you follow @MentalHealthCop on twitter.

[Jacqui5254]

What is wrong with some people?? How hard is it to imagine the difficulties faced if you were hungry, homeless, tired, depressed, penniless, unwell, had nowhere to go, nowhere to SLEEP. Completely empty of basic resources

fl0wer...what you wrote made me want to weep..."I saw a few weeks ago that someone was sleeping rough in that area, slumped against an apartment building's porch. More recently a very end-of-tether, thin lad was running round ED asking householders for casual work, saying the temporary homeless shelters were hell."

DJKillaQueen you are right. Most of us are where we are by nothing more than an accident at birth.

Get real, people and stop feeling entitled, start feeling grateful and share some of that luck you had...there is plenty to go round.

[minder]

pkpickles has already said in her first post how this person tried to attack the local newsagents yesterday morning and then somebody else saw him near the local school at 9am.

He may well be homeless etc. but surely somebody has to keep a check on him, including the police?

[DJKillaQueen]

Which is fair. He sounds as though he has a mental health issue or may even be suffering form some kind of breakdown. But why does it have to come to him running around scaring and threatening people before anyone intervenes to help? Something in our society was already going very wrong for this guy.

[Pugwash]

In the 1980s, hubby and I provided some unofficial respite care to a young man in his 20s, ex soldier, whose parents rang a thriving business in North Cross Road.'M' had been injured from a gunshot wound whilst serving in NI, and had recovered, a career soldier, he was heartbroken when some years later he was diagnosed with MS. It was thought to have been partly connected to injuries sustained in NI. His wife could not cope with the illness and took herself and their young son away from married quarters. 'M' returned to live with his parents, deeply affected by his illness, the loss of his job (was in the Blues and Royals)and his marraige breakup. A very attractive man, but women were looking at the wheelchair and not the man. He began acting very strangely, hugging women, attempting to kiss them, and behaving in a very sexual way. parents were at their wits end and tried to seek help from Maudsley who refused them. One day 'M' tried to grope a librarian at Dulwich Library and the Police were called. Having known this young man for a long time, the local police with the agreement of his parents, arrested 'M' and he was taken to Brixton pending trial. When the case came to Court. the magistrate ordered that 'M' be placed in the hospital wing at Brixton and Maudsley Psychiatric staff were ordered to assess him with in x days, and then admitt him to hospital. Without the help of the Police, who recognised that this young man had mental health problems (later recognised as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) who had tried to seek help for him via Maudsley themselves, who took the dramatic step of arresting him.'m' would have been like so many others, living on the streets. After a long inpatient spell,he was placed into a care hime in the Midlands.

[Rianoo]

Not being able to sleep rough for days on end due to the bitter cold can drive anyone insane. At the coldest time of year where can you get warmth, a bed and hot meals ? Many people choose to get themselves arrested out of desperation. Sad but true. This is why the police just let individuals on their way, it is seen as a release of a burden. On another note, whilst shopping the other day I noticed that a certain store has tripled security. Maybe a mobile soup kitchen in their carpark would be more beneficial using the food nobody wants to buy or can't now steal.

[Lynne]

It must be wonderful to be so righteous.

Personally, if anyone, clearly deranged, started shouting abuse at me, as a female pensioner I would be extremely glad to see a policeman, because I very much doubt that anyone else would come to my help. My sympathies for the other person would come some way behind my fright. Obviously I am the only person in ED who feels like this.

Lynnee