Proposed Harris Primary School

[eberg]

And just to support the anonymous letter, this artcile appeared in the Guardian (I know, I know) earlier on this year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jan/14/parents-fury-academy-takeover

[LondonMix]

Which school does your son attend if you don't mind sharing?

Also, regarding the Guardian story, while in general I share the concerns raised about the policy of converting failing schools so quickly and without engagement with parents, one fact in that article is glaringly incorrect. The government announced last summer that all schools on special measures should be converted so the actions (for better or worse) are in line with official policy. It's surprising for a paper like the Guardian to get such a key fact incorrect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/every-failing-primary-school-become-academy_n_1629702.html

[eberg]

Hey, my own experience was similar. But there were one or two teachers were truly inspiring and I can thank one teacher, Mary Askey, a wonderful teacher, for changing the course of my life. And I have to say that my recent experience of schools has been very mixed, my eldest daughter went to Thomas Tallis in Blackheath to do her A levels and the teachers were excellent and without exception, had a very good relationship with her. She did well there. But eduction, like health should be kept in the hands of the state, not carpet sellers.

[eberg]

But in both cases, Roke and the school mentioned by the anonymous letter writer, they were schools who had in all previous inspections been assessed as good or outstanding. And the parents don't want the schools academised, that has to mean something.

[LondonMix]

Yes, though when Roke was put on special measures they said it was based on a computer failure or something if memory serves. They disagree with the decision but acknowledge that they had no records to support that they were adequately monitoring pupil progress etc and this along with a dip in performance is why they were given notice. While this is good reason to put a school on notice to improve, I strongly disagree that this is enough to convert it to an academy. The draconian nature of Gove's current policy on this lacks enough nuance for specific circumstances. Given that achievement is broadly average still, giving the school a chance to deal with these issues would be more appropriate.

With that said, it seems like the Yorkshire school is suggesting absolutely nothing they did was wrong and Ofsted had no basis for suggesting there were any issues with the school. That's a much more serious allegation as it suggests systematic corruption.

[Heart108]

Is Harris becoming a monopoly school provider in Southwark? And is this a 'bad thing'? The answers are far from simple.

By all accounts they have made a success of transforming the old Waverley Girls school in Colyton Rd and building and opening the new Harris Boys opposite Peckham Rye park.

But this was part of the Blair driven change of culture removing control of education from Local Education Authorities in favour of Academies and it appears there is no going back to this ideal many of us would have preferred. And as the years go by, does Southwark have the stomach and the skills to take on that responsibility? I would like someone from Southwark Education to comment on this.

The Harris phenomenon is part of a culture that also sees individual private traders in Lordship Lane increasingly under threat from Caf? Neros and private international and national mega businesses with huge clout and expertise let it be said.

Whether this is ideologically what we want is another question.

Harris now have so much experience of building running and administering schools from start to finish, is there a viable alternative in Southwark for the proposed new primary school?

Although Harris Boys East Dulwich has had a glowing OFSTED, we have yet to see what the school is like when it is completely full in ( I think) 2015 and whether they were right to claim at the time of planning permission back in 2008, that it was not a problem to house the same number of pupils ( including a sixth form) on the Lower Site which is a third of the size of the Girls site in Colyton Rd.

Consultations with local people at the time were pretty much a question of ticking boxes, ignoring the fact that most parents consulted wanted a the Girls and Boys school to be linked with a Mixed Sixth Form on the ( larger) Upper Site.

My own view is to wish Harris well and continue to give them the benefit of the doubt, may they prove pessimists wrong.

But it is essential that a huge organisation who now control so much power in terms of money and land resources.. and influence over our children - continue to be held to account in an open positive debate.

This forum is a critical part of that debate.

[James Barber]

For context the Harris Federation in Southwark are currently 2 primary schools out of 70+ in Southwark and 3 secondary schools out of 15 state primary schools.

[Bouncy]

I remembered this thread when I saw this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/mar/25/education-harris-academies-curriculum

[James Barber]

Yes after one year of taking over the Peckham primary school they've not yet improved its Ofsted score.Whch with the old and wording respectively of Satisfactory and Requires Improvement:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/137413

[intexasatthe moment]

James ,I thought that the Harris Academy @Peckham had built a new primary school in the grounds of the secondary school .

And that it was a new primary that they opened .

But was it an existing primary that moved there ?

[Marmora Man]

Hart 108 said "The Harris phenomenon is part of a culture that also sees individual private traders in Lordship Lane increasingly under threat from Caf? Neros and private international and national mega businesses with huge clout and expertise let it be said".

This is a very poor analogy. In Southwark the majority of schools are run by the Local Authority - with a one size fits all model. Academies, in contrast, offer alternative methods of teaching, discipline and process. In many ways Local Education Authorities are the equivalent of monolithic, international and mega businesses - with Academies and others like the Charter School being the more nimble, smaller, customer focussed suppliers.

My children are now beyond the education system - but if they were younger I'd be looking at something like the Harris Academy on the Rye - where, by all accounts, there is great competition for places, strong teaching backed by self discipline with an emphasis on encouraging aspiration to strive for the best rather than settle for the norm.

Academies came about because years and years of different government initiatives (from right and left of the political spectrum) had singularly failed to improve the results of inner city local education authority managed schools.

[likansuk269]

my oldest daughter goes to harris girls in east Dulwich and from what she tells me its not exactly a great school as I was led to believe,bullying is rife,there are plenty of trouble maker kids in her class who constantly disrupt lessons and don't care about the consequences or the other students...she is in her last year after the summer holidays and to be honest I cannot see her getting any useful exam passes, her homework is very intermittent and when she does get it its done in less that 15 mins,also they constantly send texts to my wife and I saying she was late and that she will get detention for it.99% of the time its not true,(last week I got a letter saying that she had her mobile confiscated for using it in class.....what mobile was that then...it mut be the invisible type or stealth model because ive never seen it,as she don't have one due to her misusing the one she used to have and running up bills in excess of a ?100...LAST YEAR THE SCHOOL WAS VISITED BY OFSTED AND THE WHOLE SCHOOLS ATTITUDE CHANGED A FEW MONTHS PRIOR TO THIS,AS SOON AS THEY HAD DONT THE REPORT THE SCHOOL WENT BACK TO ITS OLD WAYS AND THE RULES THEY CHANGED WERE SOON BACK TO HOW IT WAS BEFORE THE VISIT........NICE 1 ...... my daughter is always telling me just how bad she sees the school.........I personally feel that the school is failing her,this is not just harris girls,this applies to my youngest daughters scool as well HEBER junior ...she is nearly 10 and cannot do simple ADD up sums,let alone subtraction,her times tables she just cannot do,and screams,cries,argues,and has tantrums every time we her parents try and get here to do them,this is a joke concidering I had a letter saying ' all students in her year MUST know their times tables,basic fractions and percentages,and reading a 12 and 24 hour clock.....HOW CAN WE HELP HER IF SHE IS NOT GETTING IT AT SCHOOL....I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT THE MAJORITY OF SCHOOLS ARE FAILING OUR CHILDREN IN EDUCATION.....BRING BACK THE WAYS I WAS TAUGHT IN THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES ,so I don't think another privately run school is a great idea......I say bring back the state schools ......I have no complaints about my education,even though a few people have commented on my unusual user name,which I have used for various things since I can remember....at least its more original than say paul jones or Dorothy....wow...they must have taken ages to think of......rant over......

[MrDude21]

likansuk269 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> my oldest daughter goes to harris girls in east

> Dulwich and from what she tells me its not exactly

> a great school as I was led to believe,bullying is

> rife,there are plenty of trouble maker kids in her

> class who constantly disrupt lessons and don't

> care about the consequences or the other

> students...she is in her last year after the

> summer holidays and to be honest I cannot see her

> getting any useful exam passes, her homework is

> very intermittent and when she does get it its

> done in less that 15 mins,also they constantly

> send texts to my wife and I saying she was late

> and that she will get detention for it.99% of the

> time its not true,(last week I got a letter saying

> that she had her mobile confiscated for using it

> in class.....what mobile was that then...it mut be

> the invisible type or stealth model because ive

> never seen it,as she don't have one due to her

> misusing the one she used to have and running up

> bills in excess of a ?100...LAST YEAR THE SCHOOL

> WAS VISITED BY OFSTED AND THE WHOLE SCHOOLS

> ATTITUDE CHANGED A FEW MONTHS PRIOR TO THIS,AS

> SOON AS THEY HAD DONT THE REPORT THE SCHOOL WENT

> BACK TO ITS OLD WAYS AND THE RULES THEY CHANGED

> WERE SOON BACK TO HOW IT WAS BEFORE THE

> VISIT........NICE 1 ...... my daughter is always

> telling me just how bad she sees the

> school.........I personally feel that the school

> is failing her,this is not just harris girls,this

> applies to my youngest daughters scool as well

> HEBER junior ...she is nearly 10 and cannot do

> simple ADD up sums,let alone subtraction,her times

> tables she just cannot do,and

> screams,cries,argues,and has tantrums every time

> we her parents try and get here to do them,this is

> a joke concidering I had a letter saying ' all

> students in her year MUST know their times

> tables,basic fractions and percentages,and reading

> a 12 and 24 hour clock.....HOW CAN WE HELP HER IF

> SHE IS NOT GETTING IT AT SCHOOL....I PERSONALLY

> FEEL THAT THE MAJORITY OF SCHOOLS ARE FAILING OUR

> CHILDREN IN EDUCATION.....BRING BACK THE WAYS I

> WAS TAUGHT IN THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES ,so I

> don't think another privately run school is a

> great idea......I say bring back the state schools

> ......I have no complaints about my education,even

> though a few people have commented on my unusual

> user name,which I have used for various things

> since I can remember....at least its more original

> than say paul jones or Dorothy....wow...they must

> have taken ages to think of......rant over......

Same problem at HBAED, it's ridiculous, the rules don't make sense and the students are like any other teenagers (trouble maker ones) - Lord Harris thinks he got it all, his academies arnt that good

[Mrs HF]

I was handed a pamphlet by James Barber outlining these proposals on Saturday and I was surprised to read that the proposed site is at dulwich hospital. Even more surprised that to get the site, the proposal relies on Harris leaning on the department of health to hand over land to the department of education.

At a recent meeting with Tessa Jowell I was told that the health center proposed for the dulwich hospital was in part to be funded by some of that land being sold off privately, therefore it would not be possible to build a school there. Is this incorrect?

I'm no expert but it seems naive to me that in the face of all government departments facing massive cuts, one department might be influenced to hand over such a valuable resource as land to another.

Creationism or not, Harris have a monopoly on secondary education provision in our area. We clearly do need a new primary but we shouldn't assume that the glossy pamphlets being handed out have all the right information and answers in them.

[James Barber]

Mrs HF,

The proposal would see the Dept of Education buy property/land from the Dept of Health.

Dulwich Hospital is 27,000m2. A primary school would need around 5,000m2.

Hope that answers your question.

As for Academy controls. Southwark have from memory 15 state one's, 4 locally in Southwark. Harris respectively run 3 and 2 of them.

Primary schools 75 states/religious one's of which Harris currently run 2.

I don't think either category Harris have a monopoly.

Whether it was the last govt or the current one the only show in town for new schools is as a form of academy OR we allow existing schools to balloon into huge supersized schools:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17012972

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2012-03-22/how-many-pupils-is-too-many/

[simonethebeaver]

MarmoraMan, you're not right. Ten of Southwark's 17 secondaries are academies and another a free school, far outweighing the LEA-run establishments.

[LondonMix]

I think he was saying that there are 15 state secondaries (including academies) 4 of them local to ED of which Harris run 3 in total, 2 of which are in ED. No idea if that's true but I think that's what the point was. It was response to the claim that Harris has a monopoly. Most of the academy run secondaries are not affiliated with Harris as such.

[simonethebeaver]

I was responding to 'in Southwark the majority of schools are run by the Local Authority'.

[LondonMix]

Who said that?

[simonethebeaver]

MarmoraMan, to whom I addressed my post.

[moondustt]

hellosailor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LauraW Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Lord Harris won't rest until he's got into

> every

> > child's head in this borough. His company has

> far

> > too much power over education in Southwark

> already

> >

>

> absolutely agree.

I agree to! Lord Harris should not be allowed to have another school in Southwark, I myself attended a Harris Academy and had nothing but a bad experience there which the head teacher contributed to!

[Marmora Man]

simonethebeaver Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MarmoraMan, you're not right. Ten of Southwark's

> 17 secondaries are academies and another a free

> school, far outweighing the LEA-run

> establishments.

Great -I'm all for the power of the market. If LEA establishments are declining then perhaps that's because they weren't delivering what parents & children wanted?

[intexasatthe moment]

Ten of Southwark's

> 17 secondaries are academies and another a free

> school, far outweighing the LEA-run

> establishments.

Which LEA run establishments ?

There are no LEA run secondary schools in Southwark .

[simonethebeaver]

Sorry, voluntary aided. Non-academy schools.