The interview

TheCat · March 11, 2021

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...it seems entirely predictable to me that

> criticism is driven by just one (race) or two

> (gender) of those many characteristics that make

> up an individual...

> It?s the British gutter press after all, playing

> to a largely prejudiced and sexist base.

So are you saying its this?

"Accordingly, it seems like many people get to that answer, because it suits their pre-existing worldview, rather than on strength of evidence on this particular issue?"

JohnL · March 11, 2021

Prince William has said the family is not racist .. but shockingly for me he hasn't spoken to Harry yet (although plans to do so). They really have fallen out you feel.

JohnL · March 11, 2021

Also just saw Diane Abbott on CNN and she said the Queen and Charles are not racist but hinted those around them might have issues.

Dulwich Born And Bred · March 11, 2021

https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/01/9198703/priti-patel-meghan-markle-comments

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ...it seems entirely predictable to me that

> > criticism is driven by just one (race) or two

> > (gender) of those many characteristics that

> make

> > up an individual...

> > It?s the British gutter press after all,

> playing

> > to a largely prejudiced and sexist base.

>

> So are you saying its this?

>

> "Accordingly, it seems like many people get to

> that answer, because it suits their pre-existing

> worldview, rather than on strength of evidence on

> this particular issue?"

JohnL · March 11, 2021

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/01/9198703/p

"I?m not in that category at all where I believe there?s racism at all. I think we live in a great country,"

That makes as much sense as the IoE denial. What does she even mean ?

TheCat · March 11, 2021

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/01/9198703/p

> riti-patel-meghan-markle-comments

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > KidKruger Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > ...it seems entirely predictable to me that

> > > criticism is driven by just one (race) or two

> > > (gender) of those many characteristics that

> > make

> > > up an individual...

> > > It?s the British gutter press after all,

> > playing

> > > to a largely prejudiced and sexist base.

> >

> > So are you saying its this?

> >

> > "Accordingly, it seems like many people get to

> > that answer, because it suits their

> pre-existing

> > worldview, rather than on strength of evidence

> on

> > this particular issue?"

Ummm...okay....this is the second time you've now provided a link to someone who believes that the treatment of MM is racist....but once again....there's no explanation for why that's the 'obvious' conclusion, and I have to return to questions I originally posed in my first post this morning above.

The author of your article here makes sweeping judgment statements with absolutely nothing to back them up.....

"There can be no doubt that the vitriol aimed at Markle since her relationship with Prince Harry went public has stunk of anti-blackness"

"the sort of insidious racism to which the Duchess of Sussex has undeniably been subjected"

...just because the words 'no doubt' and 'undeniably' are used doesn't a rationale make.....you have referenced previoulsy being exhausted and drained trying to discuss this with people.....but just saying 'its obvious' isn't an argument!. I've openly asked people here to persuade me, and all i've got in response is pithy one-line responses which are the digital equivalent of an 'eye-roll'...

But back to your article.....Leaving aside the elephant in the room (that this author willingly trumpets the importance of 'lived experience' while denying Patel's own lived experience, because it doesn't suit the argument)...there is clearly a massive disconnect in different people's perception here (recollections may vary of course:))) given that this author also says "The idea that you must 'show and prove racism' or it doesn?t exist has long been a mainstay for white people on the right"...well yeah..otherwise I just cant get on board with conceptually....so if you/the author/megan/the bloke down the street says something, therefore it must be true?...sorry...no dice.

And in saying that, that's not doing as the author has said and 'denying racism exists', of course it exists, but does it exist (undeniably?) in these examples which are being discussed on this thread? Saying it 'definitely' is the reason behind all this bad press coverage isnt wildly different from Patel saying it doesn't exist at all...

binkylilyput · March 11, 2021

Meghan, as a mixed race woman, has called out racism.

When that happens there is a responsibility to listen and hear.

But society doesn't want to hear. Meghan should be quiet about her experiences, be a good girl, not make things awkward.

Women world over feel this and know the expectation to sit quietly. For a female person of colour this is even more so. This is regardless of social class but throw that into the mix and then we add a further dimension of silencing and side lining.

White, non female people think they can legitimately challenge the existence of a daily occurrence that they have zero experience of. That is the world we live in. White males know best and rocking this boat isn't welcome.

I saw this a few weeks ago, before the interview and thought it quite interesting and succinct:

DulwichBorn&Bred I'm with you in feeling despondent about responding to this thread (or any other relevant discussions, online or otherwise) and I wondered whether to make the effort. It takes energy to keep trying to chip away at this stuff in a world that doesn't want to see, let alone change.

Jules-and-Boo · March 11, 2021

Megan was welcomed into the royal family and welcomed by the public.

The Queen wouldn't have approved the wedding if she was racist.

Megan and Harry since removed themselves from the royal family, set up a brand to take advantage of that (given no titles anymore) and have tried with varying levels of success to make a living based on that.

Let's face it, Megan went to mainstream US tv with her friend Oprah (don't forget she was special guest at the wedding) and did a very obviously staged interview with mock shock (let's not pretend Oprah hadn't already known what was going to be said.

This was milked for all it could be, with the sole aim of increasing their own publicity.

No one is denying that Megan has experienced racist comments - no one else was there - and equally no one is confirming she has.

It was a one sided speech.

The point on here is that any criticism of Megan is deemed to be racist or directed at her because of her colour. It really isn't.

I think she's thrown a cheap and ugly trick in order to promote herself. Many gulilble people will believe this to be spontaneous and not planned at all......

Oprah knows how to play this game very well.

TheCat · March 11, 2021

binkylilyput Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> White, non female people think they can

> legitimately challenge the existence of a daily

> occurrence that they have zero experience of. That

> is the world we live in. White males know best and

> rocking this boat isn't welcome.

>

So you want to police what people can and cant 'challenge' (another word for 'question') on the basis of their gender and colour......

They have words to describe someone that does that, dont they?

Talk about draining indeed....I've tried multiple times to get someone to actually justify the 'obvious' reason for poor treatment of MM as racism....but (I say again) just repeating your position over and over again is not an argument. Your link with James O'Bien quoting an 'insightful' social media post is no better...I listened in the faint hope that I might learn something 'insightful', but for all its profound sounding phrasing, the quote glosses over the key point right at the start - by saying that 'because she is mixed-race' she wasn't accepted at the top of the pyramid...so we need to accept that throwaway line as gospel before we even begin! The rest of the waffle is largely perfectly fair analysis of someone who has had trouble integrating into the royal family....but I ask again, why such certainty that that lack of acceptance is due to her 'mixed race heritage'? Its clear that she hasn't fitted in to the royal family, I don't imagine that's an easy thing to do, and I dont envy her trying to do so...but neither did diana, neither did fergie, neither did wallis simpson...is there the slight possibility that not fitting into royal life/family (and that being picked up by the press) could possibly be influenced by anything else? or no? just rascism?

nxjen · March 11, 2021

Clash of cultures: it would be unlikely that anyone brought up in the free spirited creative environment of California would be able to fit in with a stuffy, protocol driven British family.

JohnL · March 11, 2021

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The point on here is that any criticism of Megan

> is deemed to be racist or directed at her because

> of her colour. It really isn't.

> I think she's thrown a cheap and ugly trick in

> order to promote herself. Many gulilble people

> will believe this to be spontaneous and not

> planned at all......

It doesn't really matter if she is the most manipulative woman in the world - some (not necessarily all) of what is in the newspapers is still racist towards her. They can't defend with "she deserves it" - that's not a valid defense

Here are some examples from CNN

"One Mail Online headline declared that she was "(almost) straight outta Compton."

'The Daily Star ran a headline asking whether Harry would "marry into gangster royalty?"'

'A 2016 report by the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance found that hate speech among traditional media, particularly tabloid newspapers, "continues to be a serious problem."'

The newspapers recognise this - they admit there has been racial inequality

'Reach Plc, News UK and other outlets have created new roles to spearhead newsroom diversity and inclusion efforts, and made public commitments to address racial inequality.'

Almost totally cut and paste from

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/08/media/uk-media-meghan-race-diversity/index.html

Jules-and-Boo · March 11, 2021

The press are consistently awful and they are dreadful comments.

I remember when NoW hacked Millie Dowler?s phone.

Being offensive is quite normal, sadly as they have a massive impact

malumbu · March 11, 2021

If people didn't read it the press wouldn't publish it. If people didn't watch the interview, then there would be no interview. We have the press that society deserves. Twitter and other social media have simply made this worse.

Having said that previous generations loved a good story, for examples the Victorians were fascinated by murder. Not sure if that applied to everyone at that time.

JohnL · March 12, 2021

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The press are consistently awful and they are

> dreadful comments.

>

> I remember when NoW hacked Millie Dowler?s phone.

>

> Being offensive is quite normal, sadly as they

> have a massive impact

Yes - they just used the default password to pick up peoples phone messages in the days before people realised that we all had to secure our own equipment.

They'd do it again if there was the opportunity to listen in to your Alexa for instance - or join an online game and leave the microphone on.

TheCat · March 12, 2021

Perhaps a little over the top in parts....but a rollicking fun read.....and arguably reflective of how a good many people feel when normal graces are removed....

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/my-truth-about-meghan-and-harry

TheCat · March 12, 2021

I'm told the link above is behind a paywall....so...

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Magazine: 13 March 2021

Rod Liddle

?My? truth about Meghan and Harry

From magazine issue: 13 March 2021

?My? truth about Meghan and Harry

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Caroline Rose Giuliani, the daughter of the former mayor of New York, Rudy, has been talking to the press about one of her hobbies. Apparently she likes nothing more than playing the role of a ?unicorn? ? the third partner in a sexual liaison. She explained: ?Finding the strength to explore these more complicated, passionate aspects of my personality became the key to harnessing my voice and creative spark, which in turn helped me better cope with depression, anxiety, and the lingering cognitive effects of adolescent anorexia.? This is a fascinating approach to curing eating disorders, I think. Caroline?s dad, if you remember, is unable to tuck his shirt into his trousers without lying down on a bed and obtaining assistance from a young lady. They are a very interesting family.

Incidentally, I had often wondered why the Scottish national animal is a unicorn, seeing as it has even less basis in reality than their aspirations for an independent currency. But having learned via Caroline the other meaning of the word, and watched the various SNP scandals unfold, I now understand. They are all at it like knives, up there ? every hour that God sends.

If it?s Harry I?m in a meeting

?If it?s Harry I?m in a meeting.?

Reading Caroline?s explanation for why she likes to go out shagging strangers, you are immediately beckoned into the modern American psyche. Such epic, almost heroic, self-obsession and narcissism, plus pretentiousness and a healthy side order of acquired victimhood. And the overriding message: I will do what I want and you will not judge me. Au contraire, Caroline ? over here, in the UK, we will, because we?re like that and come at the story from a different perspective.

The USA is the least communalistic and most individualistic nation of any on Earth. It is written into their Declaration of Independence that an individual?s right to the pursuit of happiness trumps, if I can use the word, every other consideration. It is all a little alien to us over here, which is one reason why we tend to find Meghan Markle a repulsive creature. What the ghastly Oprah Winfrey and indeed Hillary Clinton do not understand is that if there was any resentment towards Meghan in the UK, it was not because she is of mixed race, but because she is American and behaves like a caricature of a particularly stupid American. The colour of her skin matters not a jot: it is the noisome ordure which spews out of her mouth on a daily basis that grates. Again, the narcissism and self-obsession and the acquired victimhood, the vapid and banal attempts at self-justification.

The American insistence on the primacy of the individual also explains Meghan?s different interpretation of two words which we, over here, think we understand clearly: ?duty? and ?truth?. When her idiot husband was told he would not be getting back his honorary military ranks, the two of them (i.e. Meghan) released an emetic statement to the press suggesting that there were many ways one might perform one?s duties. No. Duty is something imposed and involves self-sacrifice, discipline and obedience. It does not mean doing what the hell you like, which is what the two of them have done. But if you are a country which doubts the validity of a communal ethos of ?duty?, then Meghan?s standpoint is one you may well arrive at, especially if you are not terribly bright.

Similarly, Markle was asked about ?her? truth. People don?t have their own truth. There is truth and there is falsehood, and there?s an end to it. But once more, the native ideology devolves the concept of truth down to the individual level, regardless of whether it is truth at all. It is from America that we have imported the morally and rationally bereft progressive ideology that insists that if people feel they have been victimised, then they have been. And that everybody can be whatever they want to be, regardless of the facts. Elevate the individual ? beyond reason, beyond government, beyond God ? and this is what you get: a D-list sleb who married well thinking she has been victimised and is in possession of a ?truth? which runs counter to the truth.

The cultural divide broadens still further when we consider Oprah Winfrey, one of America?s greatest mysteries. But boy, does she have hauteur and dominion. It is very difficult for us to understand why the Yanks so revere the woman. She is an appalling interviewer, seemingly utterly incurious, every question submitted for approval and the answers rehearsed over and over again. Ill-informed, incapable of asking an interesting question, always slightly more regal than whoever it is she is interviewing. There is no intellect on display, just a perpetual desire to paddle about in the shallows, or indeed barely skim the surface, of the subjects before her. But then she subscribes to the same inane ideology ? that Meghan Markle has a truth that is equally valid to the truth, and who is she to question that validity? Anti-journalism. It was rumoured she might one day run for office. I think she?d be perfect for the east and west coast voters, a conduit of witless acceptance of every meaningless liberal shibboleth to which those deluded people subscribe.

So ? who asked about Archie?s skin colour, then? Not naming the supposed miscreant was another act of self-indulgence and cowardice from Meghan and Harry. Besmirch the entire royal family by not providing a name. My suspicion is that most of the royals were just anxious to know if Archie was going to be a ginger. That?s ?my? truth, and I?m sticking to it. Please, America ? do one thing for your old ally. Shepherd these two grasping halfwits into total obscurity.

WRITTEN BY

Rod Liddle

Rod Liddle is associate editor of The Spectator.

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TOPICSSocietyAmericaMeghan MarkleOprah WinfreyRoyal Family

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