Gay/Lesbian Parent Group in East Dulwich

[Keef]

I fcuking love this forum sometimes!

[annaj]

cazzyr Wrote:

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> Ok,

>

> Night Dom. One question...Adoption? ? Where'd you

> get that from?

>

> Caz

Good point.

Dom, I for one thought you were doing really well (if a little heated) apart from this glaring and repeated error.

I'm just an ignorant hetty, but even I know that gay ladies still have lady bits and all you need to do is woosh a bit of sperm up there (that's a techinical, medical description obviously).

Nice to see you post about something you actually care about though, is this the real Domitianus at last?

I think I always thought of is as a slightly soggy, fat, potato chip. Definitely something you'd flick off not fill in.

[mockney piers]

The wood chips have it.

"It is American, first recorded in the Long Island Telegraph for 20 May 1830: ?When two churlish boys were determined to fight, a chip would be placed on the shoulder of one, and the other demanded to knock it off at his peril?. The same idea is mentioned in the issue of The Onondaga Standard of Syracuse, New York, for 8 December the same year: ??He waylay me,? said I, ?the mean sneaking fellow ? I am only afraid that he will sue me for damages. Oh! if I only could get him to knock a chip off my shoulder, and so get round the law, I would give him one of the soundest thrashings he ever had.??

It seems to have been a challenge in the same spirit as a medieval knight throwing down his gauntlet. If your opponent picked up the glove, or knocked the chip of wood off your shoulder, the challenge was accepted and the fight was on. Later it came to suggest somebody who shows a belligerent attitude, acting as though he were spoiling for a fight; the chip was figurative, but the idea was the same."

Oh and Keef, I know what you mean. I've just caught up with the beer prices thread and was wiping away tears. Comedy geniusness all round.

[annaj]

Have checked. The expression "chip on his (or her, lets be inclusive here) shoulder" is reputed to have originated form the 19th century American practice of men spoiling for a fight by balancing a chip of wood on there shoulder and challenging others to knock it off*. It apparently first appeared in print in 1830**.

*this information was retrieved from a 2 minute google search after a good steak and a few glasses of red. It is therefore definitely completely true and accurate.

**this too.

[Scruffy Mummy]

Yeah!! I knew it was a wood chip!!

[lozzyloz]

Cazzyr, Please read again s-l-o-w-l-y.

I wasn't apologising. I was simply saying I'm sorry that you feel that way and wishing you good luck. As with my original post, just being sincere. I have a McCains oven chip on each shoulder.

[annaj]

Damn you Mockney, damn you!

Why does someone always get there first?

[Scruffy Mummy]

And folks - don't you all think there is enough comic (and sometimes tragic!) material in this forum for a book??? Honestly - it'd be a bestseller!

[TillieTrotter]

CazzyR- Think you need to start again(td)

[SeanMacGabhann]

I liked Dom's posts for the most part - think Annaj summed it up perfectly. Let;s have more of the real Dom in future!

Scruffy Mummy - you are so right about the material on here.. and more than one volume for sure

[LostThePlot]

annaj Wrote:

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> Have checked....the 19th century American

> practice of men spoiling for a fight by balancing

> a chip of wood on there shoulder and challenging

> others to knock it off*.

Surely it will require some form of restraining mechanism, or it might just fall off of its own accord... Shoulders not being very good at keeping things up by the poorly designed sloping attitude.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Never thought I'd find myself sympathising with Dom, but I do.

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There are 10 sorts of umbrellas that perform by rain

[Panther]

I wonder if, as cazzyr initially suggested. You would consider substituting black/asian where she posed gay and lesbian and thus you'd realise just how homo phobic an initial post sounded.

Try it:

I don't mean to sound ignorant (here goes) but can you also join in with black/asian groups and do fun things together or does that not work if you're balck/asian parents? If it doesn't work is it because the white group does not accept you or because you prefer to stick with like? Sorry, just curious!

If you feel comfortable posing a question like this ? I doubt (and hope) most of you would not feel comfortable. So why is it ok to attack , as many of you have done, a gay female for simply wanting to start a playgroup to help her son make sense of a very straight world where he may encounter homophobia?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I don't think Cazzyr was attacked, merely asked, in a very low key way, a fairly reasonable question from someone not in her situation. Curiousity can't be condemned even if it was unintentionally tactless. Her response was very defensive which is sad if she feels her back is against the wall from previous experiences, but I don't think anyone was denigrating her life choice.

If we can't share our thoughts and beliefs then we would be very insular, ignorant and (sweeping generalisation) 'ghettoised'.

[Ted Max]

Panther, your very point was raised by the poster in question on the first page (in a less confusing manner as I don't think she got herself in a muddle like you did).

And as to "Would you feel comfortable asking this question?"

If it was made in an effort to enhance understanding of the issues in play (as I believe it was)- then why not?

Of course, if you understand the question to be demanding justification, or aggressive in its intent, then I could see your point. But I think the poser of the question has demonstrated that s/he never meant that to be the case, despite some (at most) tactless phrasing.

[paragon]

lozzyloz Wrote:

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I just wonder if by being

> exclusive does this feed peoples ignorance and set

> up divisions in society when we should be

> encouraging people to embrace our differences?

Still think this has spiralled out of all contextThe above portion of LozzLoz's post is very relevant - hopefully people won't take Cazzyr's umbrage to be consistent with how other LGBT parents will react to similar questions. If you interested in something ask the question. IMHO cazzy is enhancing this divide by displaying the complete lack of tolerance which she is claiming is being exhibited against her.

[Keef]

Panther Wrote:

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> I don't mean to sound ignorant (here goes) but can you also join in with black/asian groups and do fun things together or does that not work if you're balck/asian parents? If it doesn't work is it because the white group does not accept you or

> because you prefer to stick with like? Sorry, just curious!

>

> If you feel comfortable posing a question like this ? I doubt (and hope) most of you would not feel comfortable. So why is it ok to attack , as many of you have done, a gay female for simply wanting to start a playgroup to help her son make

> sense of a very straight world where he may encounter homophobia?

Why would anyone feel uncomfortable about asking that question? Are you suggesting that it would be racist? Had Loz asked the question above, it would be no more racist than his original question was homophobic. It was a question not an attack, and you could argue it was a fair point.

[Panther]

I am black (male) and Gay, and found many of the posts on these boards offensive

[mockney piers]

Quality posts from ted, paragon and keef.

I feel the steam being released from this one, women only swim-thursday it ain't (thank god).

I for one am happy to give cazzyr the benefit of the doubt and put it down to unfamiliarity with forum mores.

There have been other fingers burned in the past on arrival (the lovely BB springs to mind) who have soon returned to be valued contributors to this place.

Here's hoping no ones the worse for this (often very funny, lets face it) exchange.

[missd]

what if i had asked

Are there are black/asian parents out there who'd fancy meeting up mid week on a fortnightly basis? My girlfriend and I are parents to a 10 month old and feel it would be good to meet up with other parents and do fun things together. I wouldn't intend it to be a discussion group per se...simply a kids/parents get together.There's loads on for white parents but v little for the blacks/asians in ED!

[Keef]

Panther Wrote:

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> I am black (male) and Gay, and found many of the posts on these boards offensive

But why?

Surely people asking why you'd want to be in an exclusively gay, or exclusively black for that matter, group is helping them to understand why you may feel the need to be in that group, and then what they might do to reduce the necessity for that group by being more inclusive.

I understand the need for cultural groups, believe me I do. However, it is important also that the majority in whatever walk of life, understand what they might do to make the minorities feel more welcome / included.

I could be being unrealistic, and I understand the caution, and God knows, many minority groups have been burnt in the past, but it's important to let the shields down sometimes, or we'll never break down barriors, and that goes for race, sexuality, gender, and more.

[lozzyloz]

Panther, IF my Aunt had bollocks she'd be my Uncle.

You can substitute whatever group you want and then read into it whatever you want. When you've finished doing that I'd suggest you go back to checking the Daily Mail for syntax and grammar errors.

It seems that around certain topics, people are so hypersensitive, that it make's it impossible for others outside the 'group' to ask or enquire without being accused of being something based purely on some sort of self centred distorted view of the world around them.

I'd have had more respect for cazyr if she hadn't resorted to personal attacks on anybody that questioned her response. I don't give a damn about her (or anybody else's) sexuality and I'm certainly not in favour of some kind of sexual apartheid. Statements like Panthers are typical of somebody whose lonely life revolves around curtain twitching and thinking their neighbours are terrorists because they own 2 mobs.

I think this thread perfectly illustrates how different groups of people can become disassociated from the mainstream and end up feeling disenfranchised when in fact it would be better for society as a whole if they were embraced as 'part of' not a 'different part of'. Apply this to race, religion, even football and you will find more examples where groups practice exclusivity and therefore disharmony versus the ones that integrate together and try and understand and respect their differences. Ignorance breeds fear and we know what fear breeds.

[mockney piers]

missd, I was going to say I've never really heard of a black/asian anything, cross pollination doesn't seem to be a big thing but I have found you one.

http://tinyurl.com/2kyza4

Kids might well be welcome.

Are you uncomfortable with the idea of a general purpose/pluralist parents group in the area, just curious?

[missd]

not at all keef - the more general the better in my opinion.

i understand that parents want their kids to see other kids with similar parents/family set ups etc - to show their kids that they are not the only ones with two mums or one asian parent and one english parent or a black mum and asian dad etc. however at the same time, it's very important for your kids to see other families that are different to them - so a general parents group would be kind of group i'd want for my kids.

i dont want my kids to see families that are the same as mine - i want them to see mixed up families and know that all of them are just fine!

i guess i was just wondering what the reaction would be if i asked people for recommendations of groups in the area that were only for blacks or asians...

[KalamityKel]

Quite clearly equal opps and the likes aint equal... come on if u wanted to b treated the same you would act the same and not try to alienate yourselves by deliberately being different! That's not to say one should not express individualism but ffs lose the pathetic, aggressive attitude AND stop with the assumptions that ppl are against you.