Next EDF Drinks - this Friday 4th April - CPT

[citizenED]

yea's for the Herne; me, Mockney, Jah, Lozzy, Brendan. Anyone else?

(Lozzy, hope all's alright with lil' one.)

[georgia]

1) The EDT

2) The Herne

[Brendan]

Most places have been done in some way or another except the Herne so my vote is with the Herne.

I was officially excused from the last drinks on account of being on honeymoon. My wife will write me a note if necessary.

[citizenED]

Cross posting due to sheer lack of inertia.

1, The Herne

2, The CPT

[Michael Palaeologus]

Herne cos I've never been there

CPT cos its a good pub and an easy stagger

[Keef]

CPT - Cos it's home and the staff are the lovliest staff in Dulwich.

EDT - Cos I missed the last one there and it's one of the places I like to go when not home.

Would have gone for the Hearn, but it's a bugger to get home from.

Another one we should do soon is The Plough. We had christmas there, but so many people couldn't make it. They serve reasonably late, and are friendly guys.

RE: Someone asking about The Cherry and/or The Bishop, I think we counted them out as they are so busy on Friday nights.

The Castle and The Vale seem to be on no go lists.

[KalamityKel]

The staggering bit is certainly something worth considering (for some)... ;-)

[AllyCat]

My vote as I've not been there yet is for The Herne!

If not then the CPT!

[Bellenden Belle]

First choice The Herne as I have not been there

If not then the CPT (also not been to .... I seriously need to up my pub quota!)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

1) The Castle (fancy a bit of rough)

2) Montpellier (how is that remote - it's nearer than Peckham Rye station which I bet loads of you SE22ers use)

[AnotherPaul]

I'm for a central venue so CPT gets my vote.

The Herne would be ok but can be a little quiet, more of a gastro pub than a boozer and I love boozers me.

Montpellier seems too far away even if it's near Peckham Rye, this is ED drinks after all.

Oh, and the Castle might be too pink.

[hibbs]

1) The Herne

2) CPT

x

[bignumber5]

I'm sorry that we've sparked off the whole debate on the castle again - we don't intend to stir or offend, but have a principle and feel comfortable to voice it here. Do not discount it on our account and if the consensus is for drinks there then have a great time and we'll see you all the month after, wishing you no ill will.

And one last time, because it never seems to have been clear from any previous responses, this is not fear, not being intimidated, not failing to appreciate an old skool boozer, not snobbery or a clash of cultures. It's a trade embargo.

I feel a bit like my objections and reasoning keep getting lost in no man's land, with one side telling me it's the last bastion of old skool drinking, and the other that they think it's a pulsating mass of domestic violence where they might not make it out in one piece or, worse still, catch a bad case of poor. I don't agree with either of those view-points so please, Castle lovers and haters alike, read this carefully.

My votes

1) CPT

2) Haven't been to the Magdala in ages - what's that like now?

[bob]

Up forCPT

BOB S

[SeanMacGabhann]

annaj and bignumber5

chill - your objections to the Castle are founded in personal experiences and for that I'm on your side - I think however that ultimately more than a few people would be uneasy with the Castle anyway, even had you guys never posted. So it's not you.. relax

With the exception of these 2 good people however I fear that the accusation of middle-class lah-de-dah-ness which gets flung at the forum from time to time is only supported by people who have never been to the Castle's reluctance to try it out. I see it as prejudice I'm afraid - unless anyone can put me straight (I mean most of you have met Keef, Mockney and Brendan by now and if it's good enough for them....)

So my vote

A) Castle

B) EDT - IF we can have the upstairs bar (downstairs on Friday night and I'll be lucky to hear anyone)

(and if we are doing the rota thing or can't have the upstairs EDT bar than I say CPT. I do like the Herne but it's bar section is a bit too small on a Friday for the usual forum drinks I fear)

[Fear 'n boozin]

ahem.....cpt, then edt (if the footy table works). Would go to the castle too.

There's been over 16000 posts in the lounge since I last logged in, what the hell has everyone been talking about? keef? Sean? I'm looking at yous.

[SteveT]

CPT is first choice

plough cos I've never been there.

My apologies to the people who could not make it last time but were there in 'spirits' and are obviously allowed to vote and I do hope the baby Lozzy lozlet is on the mend;-)

[Bellenden Belle]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> With the exception of these 2 good people however

> I fear that the accusation of middle-class

> lah-de-dah-ness which gets flung at the forum from

> time to time is only supported by people who have

> never been to the Castle's reluctance to try it

> out. I see it as prejudice I'm afraid

And Sean, you won't mind me saying that I see your comments as judgemental in the extreme.

And while we're at it - I hope Anna J and Bignumber5 won't object to the irony that while you consider them "2 good people" you are quite content for them not to attend a forum meet-up, for the sake of trying a new pub.

I apologise if it seems my kid gloves have come off on this topic - but actually, I'll be frank: I like both Annaj and Bignumber5; I like SeanMacGabhann; and I like those who have pm'd me to thank me for my comments on the other thread re "pushing our boundaries". Like Michael suggested - if pubs find themselves going through good and bad cycles we can wait a while before trying The Castle.

And this is the second month in a row we've had The Castle debate.... let's move on.

[KalamityKel]

*wonders whether she should put her ideas forward*

hmmmm I think this is all getting a bit too deep and not getting to the point of where to hold the next drinks. Yes we've established certain pubs are off putting for some and those are happy to sit it out if the overal decision is to go to said place (nearly thru wiv rambling) just as I mentioned I would miss out on the next drinks if it was decided to go to a place completely off the beaten track, as it were... I wouldn't expect everyone to change just coz of me as annaj and b#5 wouldn't...

[Bellenden Belle]

KalamityKel ... actually you missed the point - but thanks anyways.

[KalamityKel]

u make that sound as if that's a surprise! :-|

I weren't directing my comment at you anyways BB just generally ;-)

[Mark]

So, with 2 points for a 1st choice and 1 point for 2nd, the current scoring is:

Herne: 17

CPT: 20

EDT: 6

Castle: 4

Oriwisu Spot: 1

Montpelier: 1

Magdela: 1

(this probably needs checking)

[annaj]

Ok, Sean, I'm going to do some boundary pushing right now, because my natural inclination is to avoid conflict. Particularly with people I like and particularly when robbed of the non-verbal cues that I normally rely on heavily, so I'm aware that every word could be misconstrued.

I see how passionate you are about this and I admire that, but to dismiss people's reluctance to venture into uncomfortable places as snobbery or prejudice is simplistic and judgemental. Everyone has prejudices. It is human nature to feel more comfortable around familiar things and people and the vast majority of people are drawn to other people who are in some way like them*. Anyone who denies feeling any prejudice is, in my opinion, not being honest with themselves. What matters and to some extent what defines us, is what we choose to do with that feeling. So, in that sense you are right. Questioning our prejudices and, where appropriate, pushing our boundries is important if we are to develop as people and as a society. But, and here's where it stops sounding like I'm agreeing with you, it's not something you can force people to do. Pushing someone out of their comfort zone may work, it may challenge them and lead to rewarding discovery. However, it's just as likely to make them feel defensive and withdrawn, leading to an unpleasant experience confirming (in their mind) that they were right to avoid whatever the situation was in the first place.

As several people have already said, this is a community forum intended, I think, to be inclusive and welcoming. A space where, as long as people are respected and rules followed, opinions can be expressed and exchanged by everyone. Some people post for pure entertainment, but many, and I count myself here, post because it gives them a sense of community and belonging. The monthly gathering should then be an extension of that and should be inclusive and comfortable for as many as possible. If the forum brings people together who wouldn't otherwise have met, that's great. Or if the confidence people gain through meeting on here and in person brings them to try things they wouldn't otherwise have done, that's also great. But trying to force that process, by lecturing or making accusations of snobbery, is conterproductive.

For my part, I'm garteful that you understood our reasoning for avoiding the Castle and didn't include us in your sweeping generalisation, but I wonder if you would have so readily done so if you didn't know us. If I didn't live anywhere near The Castle, I'd have given it a go if someone suggested it, but I wouldn't have gone to my first drinks there and I'm not surprised if people are put off.

As for the question, where next? I really don't mind. I'll try anywhere except the Castle, for the reasons already discussed to death.

Phew. My palms are sweaty and I'm shaking just a bit. I'm off back to my comfort zone.

*this isn't just my general feeling it's backed by research, but I didn't want to go off on a tangent and get distracted

[SeanMacGabhann]

You're right BB - I don't mind the kid gloves coming off at all - just a good clean argument

I wouldn't say I'm content for Annaj and bignumber5 to miss a drinks - I understand why they would boycott the place but they (and I) have missed drinks before and we will again. But to not have a drinks at a pub because the pub has upset neighbours - well we could probably find neighbours willing to complain about every pub in the area

You mentioned the PM's you received about the "pushing the boundaries" comment so I'm guessing it's unpopular - shame those people haven't PM'd me to say what they had to say or indeed put it out there in public.

As I've said the Castle is not going to be the venue for this or any drinks by the sound of it - so I'm not sustaining the venue debate. I'm just concerned that "fear/concern/whatever" has won out and not any rational merits or otherwise of the pub. That's not being judgemental - that's just what's happened

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I would love to try the Castle cos I'm nosy and want to see what all the fuss is about - also, despite a deep streak of conformity I occasionally like to burst out and be controversial.

However, I value my acquaintance with Annaj far above that and am happy to go with the flow. As Mike pointed out earlier, we could always have a sub-group to breach the Castle one day. While I understand your sentiments Sean, it's just not worth upsetting the applecart. (Oh how I love interjecting silly metaphors!)