Vaccine wars

[malumbu]

Hamletter Wrote:

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> >

>

> Sadly, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus is totally

> discredited because he took China's shilling.

> They pushed for him big time to become head of WHO

> and he dithered whilst deflecting blame away

> China. The spouted support of China when they

> were patently trying to run a cover-up.

That's irrelevant. What is relevant is what he quoted on sharing the vaccine out.

Also relevant and very well spoken is the Irish PM - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p095n9lr

Straight talking, humility, admitting mistakes, lack of nationalistic fervour. You wont get that out of our PM or his sidekick Gove (Gove lacks any humility whatsoever)

I'd stick to reading the Daily Mail Hammy.

[SpringTime]

Had a Guardian/Observer type week along with BBC and Bloomberg and thought this was a decent summary of the EU-UK-Ireland vaccine charade (ceasing to be a charade when people's lives are at risk). I'm not pro-EU but I think I'd be more inclined if Ursula and her team either step out or massively up their game:

(Today's Observer, sorry if old ground.)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-observer-view-on-the-vaccine-dispute-with-brussels

[JohnL]

Israel is doing a bit of sharing with the Palestinian authority

Maybe countries are realising they can't be an island in this. UK needs to help the EU if it needs it and it can't do the UK's rep any harm across the world to do so.

[Spartacus]

This was sent to me today 😱😆😆

 

[JohnL]

This E484K mutation is obviously worrying government scientists in relation to vaccination.

The Kent variant seems to have added this mutation to itself - first found in the SA variant.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-mutation-of-kent-variant-detected-in-samples-could-help-virus-evade-immune-system-12206375

The UK is the world leader at tracking these mutations so if we're finding them it implies they are happening in other countries and not being picked up. These vaccines need to be implemented worldwide ASAP - it's a race against the virus and forget nationalism or petty politics.

[KidKruger]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> This was sent to me today

pretty soon the UK may well be in need of new members, so not so far fetched !

[Blah Blah]

In all of this, it is worth remembering, and pointing out, that the UK is a major player in genetics and vaccine development. Pharmaceuticals are our second biggest export to the EU too. So the UK was always going to be in the race to develop a vaccine, with huge investment from government money. In other words, this is one of the things we excel in.

As for the EU, their behaviour is unacceptable on this. They failed to pre-order enough, took too long to approve, and have left themselves susceptible to supply issues. To deal with that by trying to block exports of a vaccine WE developed and are licensing at cost price has angered a lot of remainers too. Not the EU's finest hour for sure.

[Spartacus]

It's interesting to see that as well as Germany, France has decided not to give the Oxford vaccine to over 65s.

Could you imagine if we said the same, the public outcry would be deafening as over 65s are high on the vulnerable list and have a higher mortality rate if they end up in hospital.

[diable rouge]

Austria, Italy, Poland, and Sweden can be added to that list.

I don't think there would be an outcry here if there was scientific reasoning not to give it to the over-65's, have any of these countries said why they won't?...

[JohnL]

The scientific reasoning for not giving it to over 65s is a lack of data - that data will come in quite quickly and Germany knows it can give other vaccines to the over 65s in the meantime.

[JohnL]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> Could you imagine if we said the same, the public

> outcry would be deafening as over 65s are high on

> the vulnerable list and have a higher mortality

> rate if they end up in hospital.

If all our Pfizers-Biontech were enough to do the over65s and people were assured of that I think we'd accept it - the younger people would have more AstraZeneca in the meantime.

[Spartacus]

That's 'if' the Germans and French have enough alternative vaccines to offer to the over 65s , if they don't then it dies seem a folly of a policy.

[Spartacus]

You are a strange fish Trolley, or are you just out of your ...

[Nigello]

It has been suggested that because Macron and Merkel know that vaccines are in short supply they are saying that no 65+ will get an O-AZ jab - easier to say you can't have one because it is not approved, or "quasi effective", because it is too dodgy instead of saying there's not enough to go around. The vaccine's efficacy on 65+ is less known about because there were smaller numbers of this age group to test on: many wanted to follow the rules and stay at home. Lack of knowledge does not translate to lack of efficacy or, worse, hazard. Macron as elections in 15 months' time and there is a fear/acknowledgement that the far right will make gains on the back of national and EU-level poor performance on vaccines.

[Sue]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> You are a strange fish Trolley, or are you just

> out of your ...

The clue is in the first five letters of the name ....

[????]

I still think Brexit was a mistake largely because of the economic destruction, which was almost entirely the reason I voted remain, with possibly a smidgen of idealism for a grand project, but boy has this vaccine problem highlighted the massive issues of unaccountability (let alone competence) at the EU. It?s no good saying oh but the commission is appointed by elected representatives? because all EU governments will be washing their hands of the EUs incompetence on this and blaming the burecrats ( probably correctly) or obviously the UK ( an absolute disgraceful thing to do). This is a huge democratic defeceit at the heart of governance and accountability. I?m beginning to think I?m glad we?re no longer in it.

[????]

Basically the electorate of the EU can do nothing about these useless fuckers, whereas we can do something about our useless fuckers.

[keano77]

???? Wrote:

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> I still think Brexit was a mistake largely because

> of the economic destruction, which was almost

> entirely the reason I voted remain, with possibly

> a smidgen of idealism for a grand project, but boy

> has this vaccine problem highlighted the massive

> issues of unaccountability (let alone competence)

> at the EU. It?s no good saying oh but the

> commission is appointed by elected

> representatives? because all EU governments will

> be washing their hands of the EUs incompetence on

> this and blaming the burecrats ( probably

> correctly) or obviously the UK ( an absolute

> disgraceful thing to do). This is a huge

> democratic defeceit at the heart of governance and

> accountability. I?m beginning to think I?m glad

> we?re no longer in it.

I would not be so harsh on the EU over this quids.

The EU comprises 27 nations of different economic strengths and political clout and after the unseemly scramble by nations worldwide to secure masks, ventilators and other ppe the intention was to secure vaccines collectively so that ?poorer? individual members would not lose out The approach is cautious, brainstormed and war-gamed by committees and sub-committees before being handed over to lawyers who cross every t and dot every i. That?s what big lumbering organisations do.

Unfortunately, when crises like this pandemic arise what is required is proactive dynamism which the structure of the EU doesn?t seem to allow. The EU will learn from this.

Just as an aside, one thing crossed my mind today about this fixation of the EU with getting everything signed and sealed. In the dispute with AstraZenica Ursula Von der Leyen says there are binding orders and the contract is crystal clear. But I read today AstraZenica are working on a new vaccine to address the South Africa variant.

Does the current contract, where five or six EU members have decided not to give the vaccine to over 55s/65s cover a newer vaccine that might be available in September?

Such questions keep well-paid lawyers in jobs for years.

[Seabag]

???? Wrote:

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> Basically the electorate of the EU can do nothing

> about these useless @#$%&, whereas we can do

> something about our useless @#$%&.

Our useless English @-*+% are exceptional, way better than any EU lightweights.

[Hamletter]

@ Trolley Snatcha,

Hang on in there & don't the usual forum (Liberal) bully boys.

The first priority/obligation of any government is to look protect its citizens and getting everyone in the UK vaccinated before we look beyond our borders is absolutely correct. We are fortunate that our Govt had the good foresight to make an early and massive commitment to vaccine procurement and even negotiate a no-profit deal with AZ.

When we have done all we can possibly do for our own citizens then we should help out the others including even the EU.

But more importantly, we can help out the less developed countries. The UK has an aid budget of around ?8 billion and much of this goes into useless projects many of which just create corruption and waste. DFID can never find enough sensible projects to sponsor and have even resorted to handing out bundles of cash to individuals in countries like Zambia.

Much better to switch our entire international aid budget into Covid support - vaccines, resources, training etc etc.

Covid is going to be around for a long, long time and as long as it is out there ( as it was with polio & smallpox) then we are all at risk.

[diable rouge]

keano77 Wrote:

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Unfortunately, when crises like this pandemic arise what is required is proactive dynamism Matt Hancock watching Contagion and then shitting his pants which the structure of the EU doesn?t seem to allow. The EU will learn from this.

[diable rouge]

Hamletter Wrote:

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> Hang on in there & don't the usual forum (Liberal)

> bully boys.

Hiya Trinny!...oops, I mean Hammy!!

How's it going, have you posted any more fake recommendations for your other accounts lately?

Send our love to tomdhu and Dulwich Dyson, and our sympathies go out to all those previous accounts you had to close.

Keep smiling!

Lots of love,

The EDF Liberals (Hardline Centrist Division)...

[Hamletter]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Hamletter Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Hang on in there & don't the usual forum

> (Liberal)

> > bully boys.

>

> Hiya Trinny!...oops, I mean Hammy!!

> How's it going, have you posted any more fake

> recommendations for your other accounts lately?

> Send our love to tomdhu and Dulwich Dyson, and our

> sympathies go out to all those previous accounts

> you had to close.

> Keep smiling!

> Lots of love,

> The EDF Liberals (Hardline Centrist Division)...

Seems someone may have a persecution complex. I never had to close an account.

[diable rouge]

Hiya Hammy, great to hear from you again!

Have you used one of your multiple accounts to report someone whose viewpoint you didn't agree with, lately?.

Special mention in dispatches to Mahoody, Dyson Repairs and Winder...Lest We Forget.

Kisses,

HCD

[Hamletter]

As expected, more bullying intended to suppress views that you don't agree with.