Sir Kier..the shifty ex-husband.....?

[TheCat]

A colourful quote in The Spectator from a Tory MP on the opposition leader........

"MPs in former red wall seats are also growing increasingly confident that Keir Starmer does not pose much of a threat to them. 'The more he flip flops, the more people don't like Keir. He's seems shifty. He's like a husband during a divorce proceeding who says they will be civil but then can't resist jabs,' one says"

I can't help but agree..I see a lot of what Sir Kier is against, but not a great deal of what he is 'for'..

[Blah Blah]

He is the opposition leader. It is his job to oppose and the opposition itself signifies what he is for. Not sure what the point of this thread is to be honest. Are we going to have a thread for every vacuous comment made by an irrelevant back bencher?

[TheCat]

Blimey. Talk about pointless comments.

I thought it was a mildly amusing comment on a rather important role in British politics, which might prompt some discussion. That was the point.

There's threads on here about faulty chocolate, fake grass, noisy toddlers, and troublesome people skipping on the pavement....and you object to one about the leader of Her Majesty's opposition? Or is that I've said something you don't like about him?I mean heaven knows that can't have opinionated comments on an internet forum. Well, at least not ones that you seemingly don't personally like in anycase.

I'm sorry though, I didn't realise that threads needed your prior approval....I've amended the guidelines for the lounge to the below to avoid any further mix ups...

The Lounge...

The place to relax and chat about anything. Feel free to discuss the price of fish, music issues, share gardening tips it's up to you. Unless Blah Blah says it's not okay.

[KidKruger]

I heard Kier, during yesterday?s (?) PMQs, asking why BoJo had not followed the Home Sec?s suggestion to close/restrict borders last March 2020.

BoJo literally didn?t answer the question, he just blagged on about how the UK has ?one of the most stringent pandemic border controls in the world of any nation? (it hasn?t).

The gall of it, what?s the point of PMQs if he ignores what he?s asked ?!

[Spartacus]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I heard Kier, during yesterday?s (?) PMQs, asking

> why BoJo had not followed the Home Sec?s

> suggestion to close/restrict borders last March

> 2020.

> BoJo literally didn?t answer the question, he just

> blagged on about how the UK has ?one of the most

> stringent pandemic border controls in the world of

> any nation? (it hasn?t).

> The gall of it, what?s the point of PMQs if he

> ignores what he?s asked ?!

Liar liar pants on fire

PMQs is Wednesday not Friday 😱😂😂

[TheCat]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I heard Kier, during yesterday?s (?) PMQs, asking

> why BoJo had not followed the Home Sec?s

> suggestion to close/restrict borders last March

> 2020.

> BoJo literally didn?t answer the question, he just

> blagged on about how the UK has ?one of the most

> stringent pandemic border controls in the world of

> any nation? (it hasn?t).

> The gall of it, what?s the point of PMQs if he

> ignores what he?s asked ?!

I agree it's frustrating. But Boris is hardly alone in not answering questions asked of him. Doesn't make it okay of course, and transparency in decision making is clearly not a strength of this government, that's for sure.

While of course 'opposing' what the government does is part of the opposition's job, I would be interested to know what labour would have done if they were in government? (maybe not in PMQ's, but in other forums) How would their decision making process have worked? Surely one part of the role is presenting an alternative government? I find that Labour under Sir Kier have addressed and moved on from many of the weakest aspects of corbyn's leadership, but often seem to stop short of actively making a clear stand on a number of issues...hugging the fence more often than not.

Initially, I could understand this, as just showing basic competence without rocking any boats would have created a clear point of difference to Boris and co who were very much flailing through much of 2020....but now with brexit deal signed, and vaccine programme actually accelerating reasonably well, I think it's not enough to just chip away at the poor government decisions....

[diable rouge]

I'm guessing the recent Cat - Blah Blah entente cordiale has been ripped-up...:)

[TheCat]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm guessing the recent Cat - Blah Blah entente

> cordiale has been ripped-up...:)

It must be this damn veganuary.....:)

[KidKruger]

Well... I did put a cute little ??? after my assumption of what day it was....!

🤣😭

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I heard Kier, during yesterday?s (?) PMQs,

> asking

> > why BoJo had not followed the Home Sec?s

> > suggestion to close/restrict borders last March

> > 2020.

> > BoJo literally didn?t answer the question, he

> just

> > blagged on about how the UK has ?one of the

> most

> > stringent pandemic border controls in the world

> of

> > any nation? (it hasn?t).

> > The gall of it, what?s the point of PMQs if he

> > ignores what he?s asked ?!

>

>

> Liar liar pants on fire

> PMQs is Wednesday not Friday

> 😱😂😂

[Sephiroth]

I don't love Kier, I think there is a Kier "problem" - I think he would make a decent Pm and be far better than any current Tory

But there IS a hole at the heart of his current persona where a "project" to ignite the country should be.

But with regards to Covid he has been pretty consistent. We can all see the government has at every stage been too slow to act (even a year in!) and Starmer has been there at PMQs advising in advance what to do. Johnson quips pathetically about "Captain hindsight" but Starmer is there saying "no, this is what's going to happen in two weeks if you don't act now".

So I can see a Starmer government acting significantly differently during this crisis - facing horrendous adds like every leader - but I'm willing to bet we wouldn't be around 100k deaths and nearly 2000 deaths a day. Let's say he shaved 30-50% off those numbers by locking down sooner on more than one occasion as per his advice - that's not nothing

[KidKruger]

...and perhaps that?s why BoJo avoids Kier?s questions. We?re heading for 400-500,000 deaths by Xmas IMO, and Kier?s suggestions to date (if acted upon) would have significantly reduced that.

[TheCat]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...and perhaps that?s why BoJo avoids Kier?s

> questions. We?re heading for 400-500,000 deaths by

> Xmas IMO, and Kier?s suggestions to date (if acted

> upon) would have significantly reduced that.

Slightly off topic...but you believe that we will average well over 1000 deaths a day for the whole year? That seems pretty out there...not saying it's wrong, but definitely a "ballsy forecast KK....

[JohnL]

He's a lawyer and he acts like a lawyer.

I think the red wall seats will move to Labour if they don't see change by 2024 (and I don't know what will change really).

[Sephiroth]

I don't think we are facing anything like that KK - I think we have a brutal month or two ahead and then (external factors notwithstanding - new variants, cockups etc) we should have a spring/summer similar to last year and then a more benign winter - so maybe 150-200k total. Not good at all but lot better than half a million

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ...and perhaps that?s why BoJo avoids Kier?s

> > questions. We?re heading for 400-500,000 deaths

> by

> > Xmas IMO, and Kier?s suggestions to date (if

> acted

> > upon) would have significantly reduced that.

>

> Slightly off topic...but you believe that we will

> average well over 1000 deaths a day for the whole

> year? That seems pretty out there...not saying

> it's wrong, but definitely a "ballsy forecast

> KK....

If the mortality rate is really increasing it's possible and the increase in mortality ** could ** be more than is reined in by the vaccine - then we really are in a mess.

Edit: of course this is a really bad scenario - really bad. There must also be the Captain Trips (stephen king) scenario though however small (one in a million, one in a billion but its there ?)

[Sephiroth]

Any country is facing a chance of being outnumbered and all manner of caveats apply

But infections are going down or plateauing - death numbers lag. Vaccines are happening

If any government can mess it up then I'm pretty sure this one can. But I think if they don't do anything stupid and manage us out of this lockdown sensibly then we will be relatively ok

[JohnL]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Any country is facing a chance of being

> outnumbered and all manner of caveats apply

>

> But infections are going down or plateauing -

> death numbers lag. Vaccines are happening

>

> If any government can mess it up then I'm pretty

> sure this one can. But I think if they don't do

> anything stupid and manage us out of this lockdown

> sensibly then we will be relatively ok

That's where I'd place my bets :)

There will also be a couple of mess ups no doubt.

[Sephiroth]

My optimistic side says that after nearly a year of over promising and under delivering, current government messaging is better aligned to managing expectations

But if I think that is wrong and that their current messaging is actually on positive side I may lose all hope

[JohnL]

Anyway SKS is a lawyer and he's more likely to prove the Tories guilty than endear himself to the public.

Boris just doesn't answer though, can he continue that for 3 years.

[Sephiroth]

"There will also be a couple of mess ups no doubt."

there will definitely be major battles with the nutter press and wing of the Tory part that thinks this is all some hoax designed to take away our rights (all the same people who think Brexit is a good idea coincidentally enough)

But hopefully the medical experts have the upper hand now after nearly a year of this

[Sephiroth]

"Boris just doesn't answer though, can he continue that for 3 years."

short answer is no. He will not last 3 more years. I don't think he will last until year end

[Spartacus]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...and perhaps that?s why BoJo avoids Kier?s

> questions. We?re heading for 400-500,000 deaths by

> Xmas IMO, and Kier?s suggestions to date (if acted

> upon) would have significantly reduced that.

Interesting kid

If the suggestions had been acted in at the time, the curve May have had a different shape but there is a question over would we have then unlocked earlier and infections rose again.

One suggestion was a "firebreak" like Wales did, but after they came out numbers went up significantly.

I'm not convinced that acting differently would have a major effect on overall numbers, but the timeframe potentially would be different

The only course of action would have been total lock down, close borders to everyone from fay one and act like Singapore / China but as everyone advocated still being able to trade with Europe / rest of the world that wouldn't have been practical and no one would tolerate a 12 month total removal of the right to go out if their houses and the economy would have tanked beyond recovery.

Would be interesting to model the scenarios and see what the result would be.

[Sephiroth]

It isn't hard to look at UK numbers and SOMEHOW imagine them being better tho, surely

When you are this bad, in this much of a whole compared to other countries (per capita) you can't just wave it away as "fortune" can you?

If a government can't handle something like this better (and many govts have done badly, just not quite this bad so far) then what is the point??

Other governments have done better than tis one and face massively hostile electorates. is that unfair? Maybe. But why does this one get a pass?

[Seabag]

I?ve thought this for a while, that you work for the Tory Party

The Brexit thing, now attacking the opposition.

[TheCat]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I?ve thought this for a while, that you work for

> the Tory Party

>

> The Brexit thing, now attacking the opposition.

Is this directed at me?