Noisy Neighbour Toddler Advice

[chrisb0702]

So I?m sure this will divide the forum but just wanted to seek out your opinions.

We own a 1st floor flat in a converted house with neighbours above and below who are both renters. We own a share of the freehold so do have contact with the owners. Whilst the walls are reasonably thin like in most conversions we don?t tend to have wider noise issues, particularly with the upstairs flat which is pretty harmonious. However the problem currently lies with the neighbours below on the ground floor who are a family with 3 boys, 2 late teenagers and one toddler who I think is around 2 years old. During the day when I?m working from home I don?t really hear a single thing from them but from 7pm to around 10pm the young toddler is running and jumping around like a manic which whilst noisy also causes the walls to shake. I?d say this has been going on now for a good 5-6 months and is hugely disruptive to our evenings. My partner is a doctor and as you can imagine in the current climate is exhausted when she comes home and we cant even watch the tv at 9pm without constant crashing and banging.

Our frustrations finally came to a head last night when we knocked on the door and politely, and I do mean politely, explained our situation and the disruption it was causing thinking maybe they were unaware of the impact. The response was a bit galling in my opinion, we were met with ?what am I meant to do, he?s a child?. Now I know it?s difficult with young children and I do sympathise but personally I don?t think toddlers should be awake and that active past 8pm at night. Whilst you can?t tell people how to bring up their child when we pushed them further they said they are struggling to get him to sleep and whilst they would love him to be in bed at 7pm they can?t do anything about it and he would be starting nursery in September so he would likely be in a better routine by then.

I guess my frustrations here lie with the fact that they acknowledge their child is making noise but essentially they are not willing to do anything about it and given we?ve already had 5-6 months of this we are expected to tolerate it even longer until September when they can be bothered to try get him to adhere to what I would say is a normal toddler sleeping pattern because then it suits them. not asking for him to be put to bed at 7 but just some consideration to the banging (which also makes the walls shake) non stop for 3 hours until 10pm every night.

As I said I fully expect this to divide the crowd but would be interested to hear your guys sensible and polite (I?m not looking for an online argument as well lol!!) thoughts of what we can do next. Are we in the wrong here, i don;t think so but lets see. Thanks!!

[Chick]

This a difficult one, I can only sympathise and don't have a clue as to what to do next.

[SpringTime]

You're not in the wrong. It could also be worse.

Why not ask your co-freeholders about adding extra sound-proofing. They'd likely cooperate if the issue's as bad as you say. If the actual build is also enjoying the tumbling then maybe it's time for the tenants to move on. Rather odd that 7pm is kick off time... even with current situation affecting our daily schedules.

[Nigello]

I think you have to be firmer and say that there are conventions, if not rules, and that for everybody's sake they must do more to help you. Another idea is to do a bit of detachment - you have limited power and this is a situation that will change for the better anon - which is not to detract from the pressure you feel. I would also tell them you are talking to the landlord to put it on the record. Otherwise, consider a move out to a place where you could get your own place - this is not facetious but a real recommendation. Good luck!

[intexasatthe moment]

I think that when people are made aware of their less than desirable behaviour they will ,understandably ,bluster/prevaricate .Few will instantly acknowledge things .

You have probably given them food for thought and i wouldn't assume that they'll just ignore what you've said .

[sjsl]

Agree, first give them a chance to absorb what you said re the impact and see if there is any attempt to improve the situation. If no better then follow the other suggestions re talking to the landlord/other freeholder. Hope things improve, it must be very difficult for you both.

[Peckhampam]

You are in the right. You say the family causing the problem are renting. There will almost certainly be a clause to ensure they do not generate noise of the sort that would disturb neighbours, so I would certainly agree with talking to the landlord and asking the s/he intervene.

[DuncanW]

Wise words - give it a chance to sink in before speaking to them again.

Think carefully before complaining to their landlord or threatening to do so.

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that when people are made aware of their

> less than desirable behaviour they will

> ,understandably ,bluster/prevaricate .Few will

> instantly acknowledge things .

>

> You have probably given them food for thought and

> i wouldn't assume that they'll just ignore what

> you've said .

[exdulwicher]

Most people are really quite unaware of how easily noise can travel, especially through a building with thin walls / wooden floors etc.

They may believe that they're being perfectly normal neighbours without realising how much you can hear. If that's the case, it might be worth inviting one of the adults up to your flat (assuming you can do this safely / social distancing / mask wearing etc) while the noise is going on and get them to experience the disruption first hand, I bet they'd be quite surprised.

We had a neighbour (many years ago) who's dog howled relentlessly throughout the day when he was out. It never made a sound when he was at home so he genuinely didn't believe us when we told him about it. Was only when he left his house as normal and came to ours that he heard (a) how upset the dog was at being left alone and (b) how easily we could hear it. He was absolutely mortified both at the distress to the dog and the disruption to us.

[lucky]

I sympathised having had upsetting neighbours before which, resulted in us having to sell our conversion flat when our child was 8 months to move to another property. However, I don?t see why you are disclosing the nationality of your neighbours and also, how do you know is the toddler making the noise and not any of the other children?

I used to have to put on ear plugs when I was in the same situation.

[TheCat]

Agree with the consensus here. See if it sinks in and they attempt to take action over the next week or two.

I think you did the right thing, but no matter how polite your raising of the issue was, people will likely feel defensive and slightly embarrassed in the moment of confrontation. They may have 'tried everything' in the past, and sort of given up a bit more recently as it just seemed hopeless; and to then have a stranger (well..neighbour) point this out wouldn't be the most comfortable experience, even if delivered with a smile!:)

Of course they may well just be total @rseholes and not care a jot....but lets hope for the former! Good luck.

[Whoeveritis]

I can?t believe anyone would complain about a small child , you know it won?t last forever . Is it really worth creating bad feelings? Your snobbery is clear as day right there, you own , they rent , and they are foreign. Get a grip or move.

[ed_pete]

Interesting first post...

[tomskip]

I imagine English toddlers of parents who own, rather than rent, don't make any noise.

[chrisb0702]

Agreed but there was no malice intended in stating their nationality and I apologise if anyone has taken offence to that as it has no bearing on the situation. However if you read my post correctly I know it?s the toddler because they admitted as such and are you suggesting earplugs in the evening?

lucky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I sympathised having had upsetting neighbours

> before which, resulted in us having to sell our

> conversion flat when our child was 8 months to

> move to another property. However, I don?t see why

> you are disclosing the nationality of your

> neighbours and also, how do you know is the

> toddler making the noise and not any of the other

> children?

> I used to have to put on ear plugs when I was in

> the same situation.

[chrisb0702]

No malice intended or snobbery at all. Happily admit was wrong to state nationality and apologise for any offence but was really stating facts about us owning and they were renting as it?s was important to gauge opinion from those who provided sensible contributions today. Snowflakes out in force tonight

Whoeveritis Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I can?t believe anyone would complain about a

> small child , you know it won?t last forever . Is

> it really worth creating bad feelings? Your

> snobbery is clear as day right there, you own ,

> they rent , and they are foreign. Get a grip or

> move.

[xapis85]

Out of interest, would it be different if it was a baby screaming with colic for hours in the evening or the night (which can also go on for months and months and seem endless?). Unfortunately small children don't always conform to what society/neighbours expect! Living in a detached house is probably the only answer to eliminating child-related neighbour noise to be honest.

[Tenequa]

I?m a mother of 2 girls 4 and 5 and since lockdown 1st began my girls are up later and making more noise but as parents we just can only do what we can as there lives have stopped and started in school out of school it?s very hard to settle these days especially when there?s nothing opened you can only do so much fun things at home before kids get bored of doing it no matter how exciting it may be. We go for walks bike rides scooter rides car drives etc outside the house but it has nearly been a year being told to stay at home with limited time outside but no fun things for kids haven?t re opened in those times so kids are absolutely bored and some parents are struggling to manage kids being at home 24/7 it takes a toll telling your child to sit down or keep quiet a million times a day and depending on how interactive they are with this child we don?t know or if they have a lot of things for him to play with etc plus the other kids are older you said so it?s a big gap there having to re learn themselves. There probably really tired and could do with a break. I know I get days I?m exhausted and don?t want to do anything and my girls make a lot of noise and I couldn?t care less sometimes but I do say keep the noise down but sometimes you can just relax no harm in that just be patient and see what happens now you?ve mentioned it

[lucky]

I sympathise with you and with all the parents, including your neighbours. We are all at home and times are not easy. Victorian conversion flats are not well insulated and insulating them is very expensive and offers no guarantee. It?s s very difficult situation. Children don?t do what the parents tell them all the time. I suggest ear plugs or noise cancelling headphones. Or scheduling your exercise to coincide with the noise so you are out of the house when that happens. Sorry, I can?t think of anything else. But I know you are not alone, many people have to put up with noise from their neighbours.

[alice]

Once you use the word snowflake you lose credibility and sympathy.

[Countrlass22]

No you were not snobbish or singling out nationality.

U have right get help rd soundproofing etc for such disturba.

Baby crying is nothing compare jumping up down banging crashing i know because we suffer it pe above us.

They also had baby cry colic never heard it.only child jumping deliberately on floor.with older family joining in.

In our case had call police drugs abuse attacked us physically and other neighbours same.

[Blah Blah]

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Once you use the word snowflake you lose

> credibility and sympathy.

Agreed.

This is a tricky situation and I think you need to be careful here. Some children are difficult to get into the right routine and there can often be very good reasons for that, such as undiagnosed ADHD or other conditions that do not become apparent until a bit older. The Parents may also be dealing with stress of their own. I doubt any magistrate would evict a tenant because their toddler doesn't go to bed at 7, so unless you are expecting the landlord to issue a threat of eviction, not sure what the point of going to their landlord would be. I personally wouldn't do it over a toddler. Conversions are also notorious for poor sound barriers between dwellings, as you rightly acknowledge.

In normal times, the parents could seek professional help in getting their toddler into a routine if possible etc, but we are not in normal times, we are in the middle of a pandemic. You are also assuming they haven't already tried many things, and it sounds to me as though they were being honest with you over being difficult.

[Sally Eva]

If as you say you own a share of the freehold, are you talking about shared ownership through a housing association?

Otherwise, as a part owner of the freehold, you are a shareholder in the company which owns the freehold and can express your views as such. The management company works for the company which owns the freehold.

That means that as a shareholder (with others) in the company which owns the freehold you can decide to improve the the poor insulation. You are part owner of the company which is these people's ultimate landlord. The other owners of the freehold may be the direct landlord ie agreed the tenancy

[DuncanW]

8:49 apologises for offence

8:51 calls those offended snowflakes

Classic

[JohnL]

Sally Eva Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If as you say you own a share of the freehold, are

> you talking about shared ownership through a

> housing association?

>

> Otherwise, as a part owner of the freehold, you

> are a shareholder in the company which owns the

> freehold and can express your views as such. The

> management company works for the company which

> owns the freehold.

>

> That means that as a shareholder (with others) in

> the company which owns the freehold you can decide

> to improve the the poor insulation. You are part

> owner of the company which is these people's

> ultimate landlord. The other owners of the

> freehold may be the direct landlord ie agreed the

> tenancy

I think they're a leaseholder (not shared owner) with a share of the freehold of the block. Thats how I read it.

Freeholders could agree to spend money and bill all leaseholders here - could be expensive.

I do notice many hard floors these days recommend very good underlay - that is supposed to be noise reducing. Maybe worth checking whats there.