No noises at 19 months?

[susyp]

Hi all

My nephew has been very late to do everything - which is obviously fine. However at nearly 19 months he still doesn't crawl much (he can, but he doesn't), he doesn't walk or pull up (he does have strength in legs as he can walk if you hold him but is not v interested in doing so), and he has never made any baby noises.

I have always assumed he is just very different to my daughter and not thought about it too much (my daughter was a crazy baby!) but I was describing him to a friend last night and I realised how it was sounding. He doesn't even point to things etc.

What I have noticed he has been far ahead of my daughter on is anything kind of technical - eg building blocks, shape sorters etc. He is very good at these and my daughter could never do them - by the time she could she was running around so didn't bother. So I have always assumed he was clever but not bothered about physical stuff. But now even this seems to be a bit of a red flag?

So last night I had a little google - and although my search reassured me that he doesn't have many of the autistic symptoms (ie he does (sometimes) smile and laugh and will respond to his name, respond to his parents etc), I also read that it was crucial with anything like this to recognise it early ie around 18 months.

He certainly has some sort of development delay doesn't he?

And what do I do - I don't want to be really upsetting to my brother and sister in law. But my Mum did mention to me the other day that they were concerned about him not reaching his talking milestones for 18 months - he still doesn't babble or even say dada.

Question is - do i say something - ie it might be worth getting him checked out to see if he can have a bit of help with his speech? After Christmas of course. Had always assumed this would be too interfering but now I've read how important early intervention is I feel that I should raise it. Or does this sound quite normal - I've been around babies at playgroups etc but apart from my daughter have no real experience of babies - are some babies like this and am I worrying over nothing?

any advice , this is not an area I have a clue about.

Susypx

also to say obv I will see him over christmas so is there anything I should be looking out for to assess whether I should say anythihng? my friend mentioned the pointing thing and I hadn't thought about it but then I remembered how much my daughter did it pre speech and how he never does it. I just can't remember the things she used to do that are "normal" baby behaviour.

[Fly]

Has his hearing been checked? That's the first think I'd suggest and might be a way of bringing up the conversation.

[EDAus]

Sorry no advise but my parents had my brother checked at approx the same age 18 months or 2 years old.

My mum's best friend thought he was slow in his developmental milestones and mentioned something to my Mum.

Mum always talked about how it made her feel better to know that someone else had picked up on things, it was not just her going over things in her mind, plus how getting professionals involved puts your mind at ease.

Sorry cannot be of more help. All the best for Xmas and New Year.

[Saffron]

My friend's child has dyspraxia, but is very bright. He wasn't speaking whole words until he was about 3-4 years old, and then it was only through the help of an SLT. At nearly 5 yo, his words are now excellent. Another friend has a 4 yo with "suspected" autistic spectrum disorder, but the family has been told that their son is still too young for an accurate diagnosis. He's a lovely boy, though after spending just half an hour with him, it's obvious that there is something wrong with him. He's easily upset by busy situations that most other children would find exciting. Communicating verbally with him is difficult, and he doesn't seem to recognise emotions well in others.

There are so many things that can affect development, it's worth having a professional assessment. I agree that earlier assessment is better, but your nephew might still be too young for an accurate diagnosis. But the earlier your brother and SiL are aware of potential problems, the better they can track his progress with professional assistance.

Isn't there a two-year check with most HVs? Could you work that into the conversation somehow, so that they know that you're being concerned but not interfering? xx

[bluesuperted]

I agree with the hearing check as a good 'in' - he may have something like glue ear affecting his hearing of speech sounds specially (even if his hearing of other sounds seem in tact). The not pointing thing is important too, does he show other intent to communicate or is he primarily interested in his own things, toys etc? Pointing is really key and I think if that's missing at 18m it's worth a check with GP to see if they can get you an SLT referral or at least audiology first to rule that out.

Agree that accurate diagnosis is hard at this age - as some children are just late talkers and it has no bearing on anything else, but it sounds like there could be quite a few developmental delays of varying severity here and as hard as it is to bring it up I think it's definitely a good idea - maybe using friends as examples or say you read something on a parenting forum that reminded you of her little boy? Never easy, wish you luck in broaching it.

[lucyA1308]

I imagine that if your sister has a group of mummy and baby friends, then she too will have spotted a difference. I hated the competitiveness of mummy and baby groups with my first child, but it is inevitable, and she might have concerns of her own about his development. like someone said above, she might be glad of your support if she is also worried.

Let her know that you are there to chat to if she wants.

[midivydale]

Hey susyp, how did you get on?

C x

[susyp]

saw him and he is moving (crawling now), and quite responsive. The only issue now really is the lack of noise! no babbling which is so sad as I love baby babbling. my sil is v competitive though and spent a long time showing me how clever he is with his blocks etc so it's going to be tricky. I wonder if 18 months is too young to refer though for speech therapy - at least he is doing other things now.

thanks so much for all advice.

i am being a complete worrier this christmas. need a spa break!!!

susypx

[bluesuperted]

Hi again, it is young for actual therapy but it there is genuinely no babble (which should be varied in terms of different consonant by 6-9 months, eg mamama, dadada, bababa and mixtures like madaba etc), then I don't think it's too early to get a referral for communication-related development concerns. The GP would probably advise audiology as a first port of call but I think an SLT assessment (which would have to be very age appropriate) would be advisable and this would look at lots of elements like his play, non-verbal communication skills, his understanding, eye contact, intent to communicate (eg pointing, starting up 'conversations' by drawing attention to objects, people etc).

It is a young age and not one I saw in clinic myself very often but I do think that no sounds at all mixed with no pointing is quite significant at 19 months. I remember seeing my tutor (very experienced SLT) when my little one was about 6 months and he was babbling away and her reminding me about how crucial babble is to later speech development and the main sign that all is well at such a young age: by 19 months there should be 5-20 words within the babble, possibly two word set phrases like 'all gone' and the babble itself should be very speech-like in terms of intonation, length of 'sentence', inaccurate attempts at other words with variety of sounds being used. I'm sorry it's such a tricky situation to bring it up with your SIL and don't want to encourage your overall worries but do think they are merited here.

[reren]

Just a thought in support of your sister inlaw - think seeming competitive might be a sign that she is worried and trying to show you what he IS doing well. Personally id tread very carefully here and speak to your brother not your sister in law - very easy for people to feel judged by in- laws. You know from your mum that they are worried so quite likely that they are doing the same google searches you are. Uninformed questions / diagnosis may not be helpful - you could make them more worried than they need to be without knowing what you are talking about. Somethin about how helpful you found the health visitor 2 year check when your daughter was that age or something as subtle as that might be as far as you should go - and let them lead the conversation. Even that may be too much as chances are they are hyper sensitive to the fact that the rest of the family is worried. Focusing on praising him - how well he's doing what he's doing is much more likely to give them a happy xmas? My brother went through some developmental worries with his son and now all resolved - im very glad now i didnt say anything.

[Otta]

Fly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Has his hearing been checked?

This was my instant question when I saw the thread title.

[bluesuperted]

Hearing should definitely be checked, 19 months is 5 months away at least from the 2 year check (ours was at 2 years 4 months, so that's 9 months difference) and if there is a hearing problem, even one that requires watchful waiting (like my son's glue ear which did indeed resolve, it is important to get in the system early. An SLT assessment should only be done once a hearing problem has been checked for hence my agreement that audiology should be first port of call. The window between 19 months and 2/2.5 is a crucial one for taking in (as well as expressing) all the language around you hence why intervention in this respect is important. He may be missing obvious words like labels for things but he may also be missing 'quieter' less discernible words and parts of words such as verbs and word endings which could cause an issue later on. Yes this may all end up being an overreaction and resolve organically and only Susyp knows how to word this with her SIL, but equally it may be important and I don't mean to fear monger at all but I do think a gentle prod towards seeing the GP re hearing would be a good start... Hope this helps OP.

[Saffron]

I agree with bluesuperted, a gentle prod might be a good idea.

Your bro/SiL can ask to have a 2-yr check early. The age is just a general guideline, not a requirement. For Little Saff's 2-yr check, the HV came to us to observe her in our home. The check was very comprehensive and not invasive at all.

Of course you don't want to make them worried, as reren says. Chances are they've noticed the differences themselves. What you don't know is what they might be doing about it. Maybe they don't know what support is available? If you're really worried yourself, I'm sure you can find a caring way to talk to them about it. xx

[Dudley]

Just a quick reply.

You said in your update that he is quite responsive. Does this mean he is now pointing?

Pointing is really, really important because it means that even if he cannot speak, he understands everything i.e he can hear.

Do you think he can understand things? You know how people say, oh he does not say much but he understands everything.

I just want to say that now is a crucial time for a child.

Also, if he does have a speech delay, there will be a delay to see a SLT on the NHS. This is a service which has been affected by the cuts.

It is not helpful that SIL is competitive so I would definitely go through brother, or mother.

But I would do something.

Good luck.

[susyp]

no he is not pointing or speaking (apart from imitating my daughter's cough - which was very loud so I am interested in the idea of a hearing test).

thank you so much for all the responses. I am taking them all on board and having a bit of a mull ..

susypx

[Pugwash]

Grandson number 1 was not communicating at 2 years of age and this was picked up by Health visitor although his mother did not think anything wrong, I had suspected something when he was around one, but he appeared to hear things ( I did very basic things like drop something behind him to see his reaction, called his name, rang bells etc). Hubby thought I was imagining things when I stated that grandson did not babble, hubby himself did not talk until he was 2 and then spoke both English and Polish. Grandson was diagnosed with language delay and since there was a year's wait for a Speech and lanaguage Therapist, was enrolled part time in a special needs nursery where he picked up some speech. Later diagnosed with mild learning disabilities and speech delay and was given extra help during most of his schooling.

His younger brother, now 3, also rarely speaks and has been diagnosed with language delay ( the middle 2 children had no problems). What has been noticeable that his mother rarely converses with him, she talks around him and at him but not with him.

[Dodie]

Hi there... just in case it offers some reassurance, my nephew (who is now 24) was still barely speaking at all by the time he went to school at aged 4. He was referred for SLT and responded well to it. He is now a languages teacher and legal translator in Mexico - fluent in English, French, Spanish and German. They never worked out why he had the language delay. His younger brother developed "normally" and was acutally quite advanced in his language.

I hope you get to the bottom of it all. Good luck.

[susyp]

Yes thank you everyone this is so unbelievably useful, thank you all so much.

His mother speaks mandarin to him and his father english so my husband reckons this is an issue - but i can't believe that ! They do talk to him all the time he does get a lot of attention. But I definitely find the lack of babbling and pointing an issue.

Will think about some of the points raised everytime I see him and see if I can get a chance to talk to my brother about it.

it's a bit difficult as I have recently diagnosed my mother and cured her of a life threatening illness (she basically had scurvy and none of the doctors we saw would believe me - I found a tablet she could take and hey presto she is better having been bed bound !!) - anyway - my parents have been singing my praises like mad to my siblings and if I come out with a new medical opinion on my nephew I think my family will think I am getting a bit ahead of myself!!

comes with the territory of being paranoid / neurotic though!

susypx

[bluesuperted]

Re: bilingualism - this can sometimes (not always) result in some form of self-resolving language delay and if you hadn't also been concerned re his more general interactions and pointing I would say there was possibly less reason to be concerned. However I agree with you that this is not reason enough to discard concerns about his overall communication development as too many other potential alarms going off. I say potential because of course this could all resolve but early intervention (or as early as their PCT's waiting list/private finances will allow) is indicated because sometimes it doesn't resolve and extra input, from as early an age as possible, is massively beneficial. If your SIL/brother do go down the referral route via a GP they must stress the lack of pointing and wider communication worries and not be fobbed off by bilingualism and possible related delay - the GP shouldn't discount it on this basis but just in case! And if your nephew gets seen by an SLT rest assured his bilingualism will be taken into account for all assessments, it's a really key consideration in all clinical practice at the moment as it does have a bearing in both positive and negative ways.

[Smiler]

I personally wouldn't say anything at all unless directly asked, and even then would be v careful. I would also not engage at all in comparisons or discussion about what the child can do.

My daughter has speech delay and was seen at 2 by a speech therapist (they don't see children before that age, there was a wait of several months, am not in dulwich). She didn't babble, had v few sounds, but did point, wave, and was social etc. She now has a lot of words but is still behind with her speech and getting help.

Also having regular hearing tests, which are quite difficult at that age! The hearing doctor says it's common for young children to have some degree of hearing loss for a while after colds, minor ear infections (that are unnoticed byparents), even if they don't have glue ear.

Pugwash "What has been noticeable that his mother rarely converses with him, she talks around him and at him but not with him." Bit judgmental there! How do you know how she talks to him when you are not there? It can be difficult to engage with children when you have visitors and are making drinks, hosting etc.

Am chippy about this because have had some comments from "friends" along the lines of "do you talk to her enough?", "well MY son has great speech because we did X, Y, Z" etc. Grrr.

[redjam]

I agree with Smiler - tread very carefully or, better still, wait to be asked before venturing an opinion. My older daughter had some physical delays and I had a couple of well-meaning relatives offering me a load of 'advice' (via Dr Google, naturally) which was both worrying and - as it turned out - completely wrong. If your nephew's parents have already noticed the issue then I'm sure they are well aware they can get professional advice and wouldn't need to have it pointed out by you. I think this is rather different to your mum's case as in that instance you were her advocate whereas here the child's parents are. Unless you're v close to your brother? I just remember how upset I was when my relatives started coming up with all this well-meaning advice for my child - it was kindly meant, but left me feeling wretched. Very tricky balance to get right! Good luck...

[Pickle]

I tend to agree with the last couple of posters - my son was a late walker, a bottom shuffler until he was around 22 months. There was a family history of it, so luckily we weren't worried, as I lost count of the number of well meaning people who approached me in the playground with advice, or sympathy about the apparent disability he had. I used to laugh it off, but had we not the family history it would have really stressed me out.

[susyp]

yes I take your points.

my concern is not so much the late walking, but just the general lack of interest in wanting to do things.

but then he did somewhat destroy my house last time he was here which was a bit more toddler usual.

that's what I meant really about it being hard to judge. My daughter was early to do everything but that brought its own problems - she ran before she could really walk properly (lots of falls), spoke very early and got cross with other children who couldn't (cue lots of pushing and biting) and was very tall so everyone thought she should be better behaved than she was. I do totally appreciate they are all different and all have their own challenges. I just find the complete lack of babble very odd.

but will wait til I am asked about it and be ready with a coherent response.

they have friends with babies too, so it must be obvious and maybe they would be better people to discuss with than a family member.

susypx

[SoVeriMe]

.