North Cross Rd market

[Spartacus]

snathani Wrote:

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> I wonder how many people here saying the market

> should be closed are people who disliked having

> the market there anyway. And I wonder how many

> people ill in hospital now are there because

> having nine months of "stay at home" and cancelled

> operations is really bad for our health, but

> that's another argument.

And as well as what KK said above, if you have been into kings, or know people who work there, you would realise that as well as normal winter pressures, and some admissions caused by delays to treatments over the past year, the vast majority of hospital beds are taken up with Covid patients.

ICU staff are supposed to be dedicated to a single patient or two at the max depending on severity of their clinical needs, yet at the moment one nurse in ICU is on average looking after 3 or 4 patients at a time. That's a hell of an ask for someone on a 12 hour shift pattern and we can all help them by social distancing, wearing masks and only going out for truly essential reasons (toilet roll buying for example)

The impact of the delays in treatment will become truly apparent when this wave is over so to reduce that issue as much as you personally can, follow the blinking rules, no matter how much it incontinences you because you can't get a portion of street food.

[heartblock]

I chatted on line with my partner Trust Education leads last week...all working in Cardiology, we ?joked? that we were going to be careful when cooking, running, cycling etc.why? Because if you break a leg, cut your hand or are in an RTA, treatment or surgery will be delayed, even as an emergency to save a limb as there are NO recovery ITU beds available in London... and if you have children...be warned, paediatric ITUs are now Covid wards. So please stay home, wear a mask and DO NOT SOCIALISE outside of your household group.

[Penguin68]

It is worth noting that there is a huge upsurge in issues surrounding mental health (including self-harm and suicide attempts) fuelled by fear, loneliness and isolation. Seeing other people (ideally of course in a fully socially distanced manner) offers some remedy to this. Like other strictly non-Covid conditions which Covid-19 is exacerbating we should not be condemnatory of people because their entire being isn't fixated just on Covid-19 and Covid secure behaviour. This is particularly relevant to younger people, whose careers and education have been put on hold, or severely jeopardised, by this pandemic and who have far less, materially or experientially, to fall back on.

Of course the market is a risk, of course 'socialising' is a risk, but so is isolation and not socialising. Young adults are not in line for the vaccine early on, perhaps ever (they don't normally get flu vaccines after all) - and one of the government experts has started to talk again about herd immunity amongst this age group.

[Spartacus]

Penguin , just to add context , according to the BBC "Every adult will be offered a coronavirus vaccine by Autumn, Matt Hancock says"

Whilst the isolation issue and knock on effects are recognised, young people socialising because they don't like staying in * and then potentially going home to carry undetected infection to their parents / vulnerable family members also needs to be considered in the equation and RIsk factors of going out unnecessarily to things like the burger van at a market.

* a few short months / years ago parents complained that their kids didn't go out and socialise as they were online or playing video games, oh the irony of now being told they like to go out to socialise....

[heartblock]

This Government has defunded mental health services over the past 10 years.

There has been an extreme shortage of acute and emergency ?beds? for children and adults in London for years. I have been campaigning for these services to be increased so young people in London are not transferred 100 of miles for an emergency bed, but....the current issue is there will be NO emergency beds for anyone ...acute or chronic in 14 days time.

So yes, I do worry about mental health issues, I worry about my burnt out colleagues at King?s, GSTT, Barts, Georges, Imperial...I worry about my friends with risk factors who haven?t seen anyone for a year. But it is about access to care. Don?t break a leg, don?t have a stroke and don?t get diagnosed with cancer.......

[staplemeg]

In the current situation, the market should not be running. Anyone know who would be the best person to raise this with? Helen Hayes?

[alice]

When I reported the market to the police hotlink. My reply said they?ve forwarded it to the borough chief.

Reported to market traders section of Southwark council.

[sjsl]

I've written to the head of the council [email protected], and filled in an online form (which will probably take forever to reach anyone). MP [email protected] is also a good idea and I've already emailed her.

[Spartacus]

Playing the devils advocate for a moment

Should it be closed or should the current rules be applied with more authority to control / enforce numbers, social distancing and mask wearing ?

[alice]

It could work if only stalls selling vegetables fruit bread eggs fish etc were allowed. The kind of products you buy then leave.

[KidKruger]

A fair suggestion in principle, but I think it would come back to the problem shopkeepers face - enforcement.

People get pretty aggressive when challenged.

Last night I got called a tramp (fair enough), ?bladclaat?, c*nt, racist AND a got threat to ?give you Covid?, because I asked a guy sat in a takeaway if he could put a mask on - in a place that clearly had a big sign on the door (with diagram) to ?only enter if wearing a mask?. He was sitting down, so I didn?t touch him.

Wouldn?t fancy doing that job myself in a shop or market !

Spartacus Wrote:

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> Playing the devils advocate for a moment

>

> Should it be closed or should the current rules be

> applied with more authority to control / enforce

> numbers, social distancing and mask wearing ?

[sjsl]

Agree KK, the problem with the suggestion of applying the rules with more authority, there just aren't the resources/manpower... if there were more community policeman it would help but they aint there. You can't expect stallholders etc to enforce the rules.

[Spartacus]

sjsl Wrote:

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> Agree KK, the problem with the suggestion of

> applying the rules with more authority, there just

> aren't the resources/manpower... if there were

> more community policeman it would help but they

> aint there. You can't expect stallholders etc to

> enforce the rules.

But you could reasonably expect the appointed market officers in the council to enforce the rules or install barriers and one way systems to assist people being able to follow the rules

[Jules-and-Boo]

No, you have to trust the stall owners and customers. Herne Hill market was open today, with just a handful of stalls and people were observing rules.

I don?t believer the same could be said for NCRoad (or we wouldn?t be having this conversation) so it had to be nothing.

[heartblock]

Go out to buy essentials ... otherwise stay at home. We are all bored of it, we all want to have fun, we all want to eat nice tasty pork buns, but the selfish and thoughtless actions of some people will cost lives. Yes, this Government is useless and yes the message has been confused and mixed, but we all know what we should be doing. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/10/london-hospital-trust-cancels-urgent-cancer-surgery-covid-barts?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[AnnaSimmonds]

Do you genuinely think people are leaving their house just to go look at how busy the market is so they can complain about it? Come on!

I absolutely love that market and fully support all the local businesses that make this area such a special one. I can?t think of anything more sad than it needing to shut- oh yes I can, people starving of oxygen and dying alone without their family around them because we all fancied a hog roast and a chat...

No one is denying the horrendous impact this pandemic and the restrictions are having on so many different people in so many different ways. The economic and mental health impact is just awful and I agree that it?s hit certain groups much harder. I think everyone can understand the desire to find ways around the rules and seek out social contact and of course the need for vendors to keep working and making a living.

The struggle is that the more we are complacent/make exceptions and don?t comply, the more people will get sick, the more likely the NHS falls over entirely and the longer we all have to live with our lives restricted.

[DulwichFox]

Keeping the Market open gives the impression that things are back to Normal.

and that it is OK to stroll around eating Street Food and having a good old chat.

Closing the Market will bring it home to people that we all need to 'STAY AT HOME'

and only venture out for Essentials.

Things are far more serious than they were in Early 2020.

People seem to believe that having a Vaccine available has made it Safe to go out.

DulwichFox

[Nigello]

Are the stallholders exempt from any of the government payments? If not, then I can see why they are dead keen to make money. If not, then they ought to not open and turn attention to take-away via phone or online order.

Also, I do expect stallholders to instil some confidence at least by enforcing (yes, enforcing) distanced queueing and card only payment etc. I woudl prefer to shop at a stall whose owner is telling customers to stay six feet apart, etc. than one that turns a blind eye and take the cash.

Most people sans masks are young men and, strangely-to-me, middle-aged women, in my experience.

[KidKruger]

Not all stall holders live in SE22 to do deliveries, also they may not be set up at home to operate in an ad-hoc order/delivery mode.

I have noticed previously that the pie van is consistent and adamant in distancing, serving and payment safely.

[LJC04]

Brockley farmers market is an excellent example of how to run an outdoor market and stick to the rules. They have a one way in and out system, stewards monitoring numbers at the gate and only allowing people in with masks, all stallholders have a strict queuing system as well. I know it?s a little harder with a street market, but a lot of good lessons could be learnt from how they do things.

[malumbu]

Please don't big up Lewisham as I don't want you moving to my manor. Nor the Horniman Sunday market, I hear it is really rubbish so you don't need to come, and dangerous dogs roam around the gardens. Oh, OK you can come as you have asked nicely.

[Jellybeanz]

AnnaSimmonds Wrote:

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> Food and drink may be classed as ?essential? but i

> am very surprised Southwark allowed it to go

> ahead. Obviously I can entirely understand the

> instinct of the vendors to want to keep going with

> their small businesses but it did not look in

> keeping with the spirit of lockdown at all, lots

> of people maskless and in close proximity to one

> another. In an area where 1 in 20 are estimated to

> have covid, it did seem irresponsible. But then

> probably no different to how busy the rest of

> Lordship Lane was today. I Was really surprised to

> see it open though!

I totally agree. It was very busy when I saw it (I live nearby) and hardly anyone wearing masks.

I know market traders need to earn a living but it should have been better policed in terms of people distancing and not gathering together.

People in this area just don't seem to be taking Covid seriously enough.

[Jellybeanz]

heartblock Wrote:

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> My colleagues in the NHS are at breaking point. My

> best friend was called on NYEve to call around his

> team to ask for volunteers for the intensive care

> unit .... to help prone patients and act as

> assistants to the ITU team as they were so short

> handed. I?m so glad that people had access to a

> nice pork bun! Seriously 😑 I don?t blame

> the guys selling food on the stall...it must be

> hard if that is their only income. The Government

> should pay people to stay at home, if you can?t

> pay your rent or mortgage you can end up

> homeless...which won?t help the NHS as it

> increases morbidity and pressure on health

> services. But.....Southwark need to work within

> the crap parameters that this incompetent

> Government have given us. I think making masks

> mandatory if people want to run stalls and shop in

> the market is a good compromise.

I completely agree. Make masks outside compulsory. Instil how dangerous Covid is (people don't get it until they have it or know someone who ends up in ITU or dies). Market should be very carefully organised if allowed to go ahead.

[Abe_froeman]

I will miss this market when it's no longer around because a bunch of people who weren't there to shop had it closed down after they and lots of other people who'd come to gawp at the crowds.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Kings took in 100 local people this weekend. They are now at breaking point.