Has ED started to decline?

[*Bob*]

Yeah.. END OF

Back to fascinating 51nd page of M&S, bottles of piss - and other such treats.

[maxxi]

I liked the previous incarnation of Green & Blue and used it as a deli/wine shop - always lots of new and interesting stuff on the tables near the till and in the display case and nearby shelves and all with lots of info on the products themselves - after the make-over that all disappeared and it was like going into a restaurant - anything they had to sell was hidden in the dark at the back - that put me off going in as often as I used to.

[first mate]

Seems like Bellenden may be the new ED/Northcross rd, with a number of new little indie shops. The Xmas street event was great.

Think if M&S lands it probably will make the way for more chains to open in ED. Do we know if a chain store is also involved in the garden shop development by the station?

I've heard it rumoured that some streets where old cracked pavement has been dug up and replaced with tarmac will be paved properly, but only if certain chains move in, so presumably the shops would in some way be funding this work?

[TonyQuinn]

I think maxxi is right about the problems associated with the redesign at Green & Blue but clearly they were caught in a vice. Rent was going up seemingly and necessitated a response. This was the one they came up with. It didn't work for me either but you can't blame the guys at G&B. It's getting to be a concern what's going on on the strip but it's not just independents suffering. Look at Comet (last trading day today), JJB Sports, Clinton Cards and many many more.....these are tough times, but good times will return and those that have the spunk to invest now will likely reap the dividends. Why don't we all club together and set up our own eastdulwichforum shop.

[Chillaxed]

I doff my cap to all you anti-chain store posters. Shopping must take you forever, and be very expensive, without patronising these chain stores.

[Jeremy]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems like Bellenden may be the new ED/Northcross

> rd, with a number of new little indie shops. The

> Xmas street event was great.

Bellenden Rd is looking great now. I think it struggled for a while to attract/retain a good mix of businesses, but places like The Begging Bowl and Victoria Inn have really brought it up a notch.

No doubt in a few years time, people will be reminiscing about how it used to be in its heyday.

[LondonMix]

Agree Chillaxed. My in-laws, who are on a very tight budget, pretty much rely on the chains a lot of these posters show so much contempt for to make ends meet. Also, they are old enough to remember the days when you had to buy everything separately from small shops. They aren't so nostalgic about its charm. They find it painfully slow. I love our independent shops but I recognise them for what they are: a luxury.

[Angusvanfrehley]

The higher rents are really hurting the independants on the lane, I know for a fact that there are three more shops that will be closing within six months of the new year due to literally when higher rents come into effect. One business is having their rent go from ?17,000 to ?35,000!

The business area is also expanding through to Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge. There is a lot of money and government initiatives providing support for start ups, ie the Mary Portas scheme has allocated ?100,000 to the previous mentioned areas. I know of one business that will be relocating to Dartmouth Rd in Forest Hill due to the above mentioned financial assistance.

One of the major factors for this expansion is the Overground, these areas are much more easily accesable due to the train system.

Man I really miss Inside 72....

[Jeremy]

100K doesn't sound like a lot of money to regenerate an area. You can spend more on that on refurbishing a house.

[Angusvanfrehley]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 100K doesn't sound like a lot of money to

> regenerate an area. You can spend more on that on

> refurbishing a house.

The 100K I believe is used to supliment business rents to get a business up on their feet.

Example:

http://thebutcheryltd.com/forest-hill-pop-up.html

http://www.see3.co.uk/pen-and-gravymodernish-kirkdale/

http://www.see3.co.uk/jack-jill/

[michael_FH]

Angusvanfrehley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know of one business that will be

> relocating to Dartmouth Rd in Forest Hill due to

> the above mentioned financial assistance.

Who's that? Is it an existing business moving out of Lordship Lane or a new business that has chosen to set up in Forest Hill rather than East Dulwich?

?100k is not a lot of money, but when used wisely it can have a transformative effect, as it is doing in Forest Hill (together with ?12m rebuild of the swimming pool and the Overground connections).

To be fair, I don't really think Lordship Lane has started to decline, but it has possibly stopped accelerating at such a rate, and at the same time there is growth in some other surrounding areas (from a much weaker position). But if you judge East Dulwich by what it does have, it is still an excellent and balanced high street that much of South East London would love to emulate, even just a little bit.

[macrobana]

Angusvanfrehley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know for a fact that

> there are three more shops that will be closing

> within six months of the new year

>

What fact is that?

[????]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agree Chillaxed. My in-laws, who are on a very

> tight budget, pretty much rely on the chains a lot

> of these posters show so much contempt for to make

> ends meet. Also, they are old enough to remember

> the days when you had to buy everything separately

> from small shops. They aren't so nostalgic about

> its charm. They find it painfully slow. I love

> our independent shops but I recognise them for

> what they are: a luxury.

So they drink Coffee at Cafe Nero, buy Burgers in GBK, get some clobber in the White Stuff and then go for a swifty in the Adventure bar then?

Can't people understand the difference with not liking chains on LL rather than chains per se? Apparently not.

[*Bob*]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agree Chillaxed. My in-laws, who are on a very

> tight budget, pretty much rely on the chains a lot

> of these posters show so much contempt for to make

> ends meet. Also, they are old enough to remember

> the days when you had to buy everything separately

> from small shops. They aren't so nostalgic about

> its charm.

I find this an odd argument.

If you love supermarkets, every single one will deliver (most of them for free) to your doorstep. You've never had it so good - take your pick! And there are very few good reasons left these days why anyone one budget - and interested in staying on it - couldn't get internetted-up with very little money. Perhaps five or ten years ago, but not now. Or take the short trip to anyone of the giant supermarkets nearby.

Conversely, if you hate trudging around small shops on account of the above, why should you even care what's in them? Or who goes in them? Or how much things cost in them?

[????]

i'd knock down all the shops below the Palmerston and stick in a massive Walmart - cheap convenience right on our doorstep

[Twirly]

Why does it have to be supermarkets/chains or independent shops? Surely both can co-exist and we can all use both ? unless there are some people who never want to leave the ED environs? There are plenty of chains in Peckham and Brixton, and if you want lots more, the West End and various other shopping centres are no more than an hour away. I think ED has a nice mix of smaller chains and independents ? a good, mixed high street. Many bland towns are probably quite envious.

As for doing the weekly food shop, I shop in the big Sainsbury?s, the Co-op, Iceland, Pretty Traditional, the fish stall on Saturdays/Moxons and SMBS depending on what I need and when. My regular Saturday shopping route takes in the Co-op, SMBS and Pretty Traditional with a possible stop at the fishmonger, and needn?t take more than an hour or so ? about the same length of time it takes for me to take the car or bus up to Sainsbury?s. Admittedly I?m shopping for 2, not a family of 4 or more, but all the same, it doesn?t take that long. I also sometimes find the local shops to be cheaper than the supermarkets, depending on what I?m buying, of course.

As for what ED could do with, the suggestion of a decent crafts supplier is the one that resonates with me. Haberdashery, art supplies, craft supplies, am sure it could do quite well here. But not a Hobbycraft!

[Atticus]

I went into G and B about 6 months ago for a quick drop, not being the know I asked for a nice dry, regular glass, ?7. not been back.

[Jessie]

I've been buying take-out bottles of vino for around the 7 quid mark at g&b and they've always been delicious. Will miss it.

[LondonMix]

I like our high street and use it. My in-laws (believe it or not) prefer supermarkets and still like to pick out their own produce. Not everyone is happy for others to select their meat and veg for them as is the case if you buy these online.

I was simply agreeing with Chillaxed that chains serve their purpose for certain people. Its really not that complicated.

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LondonMix Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Agree Chillaxed. My in-laws, who are on a very

> > tight budget, pretty much rely on the chains a

> lot

> > of these posters show so much contempt for to

> make

> > ends meet. Also, they are old enough to

> remember

> > the days when you had to buy everything

> separately

> > from small shops. They aren't so nostalgic

> about

> > its charm.

>

> I find this an odd argument.

>

> If you love supermarkets, every single one will

> deliver (most of them for free) to your doorstep.

> You've never had it so good - take your pick! And

> there are very few good reasons left these days

> why anyone one budget - and interested in staying

> on it - couldn't get internetted-up with very

> little money. Perhaps five or ten years ago, but

> not now. Or take the short trip to anyone of the

> giant supermarkets nearby.

>

> Conversely, if you hate trudging around small

> shops on account of the above, why should you even

> care what's in them? Or who goes in them? Or how

> much things cost in them?

[*Bob*]

So it does seem rather like everybody has what they want. You can go to a local indie. You can go to a local supermarket. You can shop online. Everyone's a winner.

I'd suggest though that there's a much (as you say) 'contempt' for darling locals indies (and users thereof) on here as there is for the supermarket brigade.

[Chillaxed]

I was also insinuating (half-arsedly) that some of the rabid anti-chain store posters on this and other threads likely do a fair proportion of their shopping at chain stores (for a number of reasons) and some of their comments smack of NIMBYism.

[*Bob*]

Don't see what's wrong with a bit of NIMBYism.

I mean - I need to go to the tip sometimes as well, but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to look at it.

[Chillaxed]

Fair enough *Bob*, I think most people indulge in a bit of NIMBYism. But few are honest enough to admit it e.g. one uses chain stores but one prefers them to be located on Rye Lane (out of sight but within walking distance). Many posters seem to be anti-chain stores full stop and that takes some doing in this day and age.

[LondonMix]

Agree Bob, the contempt goes both ways and is always rediculous.

[davidh]

ed has definitely NOT started to decline. new businesses will replace the old. life will go. many of us LL traders are actually experiencing a small upturn on last xmas. I take this as an encouraging sign. it will go on being hard work, but when it is your own small independent biz you get stuck in, keep calm and carry on. before anyone asks, we have run celestial for 12 years and look forward to another 12 at least!