Tier 4 - bankrupting small local businesses

[Bony Fido]

The timing of Tier 4's introduction could not have been worse for small retailers - they have stocked their shops to the max in preparation for what should have been their busiest 4 days of the year and are now forced to close, also leaving their staff in the lurch.

As I recall there was a movement in SE22 to donate to help these businesses to survive, but this situation is the result of our (so-called) government's ineptitude and they should be footing the bill (albeit with our money)

[Jules-and-Boo]

It?s devastating. I can?t believe this government.

There is not even certainty that this will have an impact on COVID to mitigate the damage and distress T4 will cause.

No doubt schools will open in a couple of weeks and teachers who are not allowed to spend Christmas with their own families will be back at work putting themselves at risk.

People need to stop buying from Amazon, wait til local shops are open again and just buy fists later.

Amazon is such a dirty word in our house.

We?ve bought locally and what we haven?t bought will wait.

The government need to compensate the small business. Not only have they stocked up, they?ve also invested in making their shops COVID safe.

[sheff]

Absolutely no way more compensation is coming..

They are inept.

Tier 3 regulations allowed businesses to claim a poxy 3k for every 28 days of closure, dependent on rates value. So for the likes of Lordship lane it will be less.

Now, we?ve got 5 restaurants, each in a different borough. And you claim via each local authority. It?s a myriad of forms, none are the same and some haven?t even got the forms ready for the November lockdown.

As for stock, that?s a killer. If it?s perishable doubly so.

We binned or donated thousands of pounds in stock when T3 hit our restaurants last week.

We started direct to consumer boxes in May to get revenue. Yesterday?s last minute decision means we?ve got 100k of fish and shellfish arriving for deliveries Mon-Wed, many of which customers are trying to cancel as we speak.

Now, suck up the loss, or stick to the T&C and lose a customer for good.

The shelters of London will be eating some pretty awesome fish over Xmas.

I had cheese ordered from Mon being delivered to my parents, rather than cancel I?ve just redirected

to their shop and I?ll just be eating cheese at Xmas!!

Restaurants won?t be open until end of Feb in London, we?ve buried ourselves in debt, and will be loading more on to survive Jan/Feb...

But, Jeff at friendly Amazon has made 100bn so somethings at least working... Lucky our Chancellor?s negotiating their tax position, not complicated by his wife having a huge investment in an Amazon JV in India...

[Penguin68]

But, Jeff at friendly Amazon has made 100bn so somethings at least working...

Unless you can demonstrate that Amazon was behind the Coronavirus spread, or the new variant, then they were both lucky and had invested in the right business model for the time. They are employing for delivery many people who would otherwise be out of work because of Covid-19.

It is hugely sad that many very worthy local outlets, both retail and in hospitality, have suffered - but it is not Jeff Bezos' fault.

[jazzer]

sheff Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Absolutely no way more compensation is coming..

> They are inept.

> Tier 3 regulations allowed businesses to claim a

> poxy 3k for every 28 days of closure, dependent on

> rates value. So for the likes of Lordship lane it

> will be less.

>

> Now, we?ve got 5 restaurants, each in a different

> borough. And you claim via each local authority.

> It?s a myriad of forms, none are the same and some

> haven?t even got the forms ready for the November

> lockdown.

>

> As for stock, that?s a killer. If it?s perishable

> doubly so.

> We binned or donated thousands of pounds in stock

> when T3 hit our restaurants last week.

> We started direct to consumer boxes in May to get

> revenue. Yesterday?s last minute decision means

> we?ve got 100k of fish and shellfish arriving for

> deliveries Mon-Wed, many of which customers are

> trying to cancel as we speak.

> Now, suck up the loss, or stick to the T&C and

> lose a customer for good.

> The shelters of London will be eating some pretty

> awesome fish over Xmas.

>

> I had cheese ordered from Mon being delivered to

> my parents, rather than cancel I?ve just

> redirected

> to their shop and I?ll just be eating cheese at

> Xmas!!

>

> Restaurants won?t be open until end of Feb in

> London, we?ve buried ourselves in debt, and will

> be loading more on to survive Jan/Feb...

>

> But, Jeff at friendly Amazon has made 100bn so

> somethings at least working... Lucky our

> Chancellor?s negotiating their tax position, not

> complicated by his wife having a huge investment

> in an Amazon JV in India...

I feel extremely sorry for businesses such as yours. It sounds like five restaurants is a huge operation. I feel sorry for all the suppliers as well who must be wondering what will happen to the stock ordered from them.

If you have an idea what you'll have as cancelled orders, can you not advertise in the business section and you may get some people locally who may be interested, at least generating some revenue for your businesses. Can you return to plan B and also offer consumer boxes through here and your website. Good luck.

[jazzer]

Agreed Amazon is a dirty word.

The Govt can't do right for doing wrong. No one expected the virus and just as they thought the vaccine was going to start being rolled out a variant of the virus appears and the number of infections radically increases.

Had Sadiq done his job and enforced and I mean ENFORCED mask wearing (never seen a single Covid Marshall) we wouldn't be in the current mess we are in now. When I was last out on Thursday people on buses were still NOT wearing masks, getting on without one on and then after getting seated maybe putting a mask on. It is a joke. Until we have proper enforcement things will not improve. How long will tier 4 last, I'm guessing till at least the end of January and potentially till after 14th Feb.

It didn't help with the ridiculous scenes of selfish people rushing to mainline stations in London to "escape" tier 4 last night, even though Chris Witty when asked about unpacking a travel bag said yes, don't travel. At some stage all these people will return over the coming weeks.

[Penguin68]

Agreed Amazon is a dirty word.

Not agreed by me. In general they offer a wide range (at reasonable prices) and good delivery. There are many things I can't buy locally, or can't find (and I do try) - often Amazon is my only realistic source. Their delivery people seem well trained to leave things at doorways and retreat quickly. It is fortuitous that their business model has so chimed with the current situation, but I don't despise luck in business, if coupled with good management. I have very good local stores, and I buy from them what I can. I used to drive out to find not-so-local stores, but Covid and nightmare drives now limit that. As someone over 70, alternatives to driving are not appealing, once things are beyond my easy walking distance (and back, carrying stuff).

[NewWave]

jazzer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agreed Amazon is a dirty word.

>

> The Govt can't do right for doing wrong. No one

> expected the virus and just as they thought the

> vaccine was going to start being rolled out a

> variant of the virus appears and the number of

> infections radically increases.

>

> Had Sadiq done his job and enforced and I mean

> ENFORCED mask wearing (never seen a single Covid

> Marshall) we wouldn't be in the current mess we

> are in now. When I was last out on Thursday people

> on buses were still NOT wearing masks, getting on

> without one on and then after getting seated maybe

> putting a mask on. It is a joke. Until we have

> proper enforcement things will not improve. How

> long will tier 4 last, I'm guessing till at least

> the end of January and potentially till after 14th

> Feb.

>

> It didn't help with the ridiculous scenes of

> selfish people rushing to mainline stations in

> London to "escape" tier 4 last night, even though

> Chris Witty when asked about unpacking a travel

> bag said yes, don't travel. At some stage all

> these people will return over the coming weeks.

Yes I'm sorry to say that the selfish or stupid behaviour of some has lead to us all being in tier 4.

As I've said before I work in a busy store in Central london use 4 trains a day to and from work and have to face the disastrous interchange at Canada water every morning. at least 20% of people on public transport not wearing masks

zero social distancing or any sign on marshalling on the escalator interchange at Canada water in the morning rush hour.

People entering tube stations unmasked but not being stopped.

In the stores in the west end large groups of customers unmasked-they are made to wear a mask upon entering the store but the moment they get inside they remove it and social distancing also goes out the window.

Its heartbreaking-my employers have tried really hard to ensure our safety by putting lots of behind the scenes procedures in place, temperature checks, free bottles of hand sanitiser for all, providing masks etc etc but we dont have enough security to approach every customer walking round without a mask-we had a load of redundancies in October because of Covid no doubt there'll be more. I have friend who lost his retail management job during first lockdown and has found it impossible to get another.

No one could have foreseen the new more infectious strain of this virus but if people had just obeyed the rules maybe we wouldn't now be in this mess-I hate rules-I was a punk in the 70's and have always danced to my own drummer-but this is life or death and there is a section of society who actually dont think the rules apply to them, or realise that by not wearing a mask and taking precautions they could kill somebody's mother, etc etc

But back on topic..

My heart breaks for small independent retailers and restaurants We must all try to support them any which way we can-now and in the future-dont buy from chains, be it food or clothing or whatever

Try and shop small and shop local.

Your loved ones can wait to get a christmas present- dont buy from Amazon if the local shop offers a click and collect or delivery option.

[j.a.]

jazzer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agreed Amazon is a dirty word.

>

> The Govt can't do right for doing wrong. No one

> expected the virus and just as they thought the

> vaccine was going to start being rolled out a

> variant of the virus appears and the number of

> infections radically increases.

Throughout this crisis Boris has consistently ignored scientific advice until the last possible moment. Of course no one saw this coming (except for all the experts - remember them - who pointed out that Chinese wet markets would inevitably lead to exactly this), but the UK govt has not performed well.

> Had Sadiq done his job and enforced and I mean

> ENFORCED mask wearing (never seen a single Covid

> Marshall) we wouldn't be in the current mess we

> are in now.

Right, so it?s all Sadiq?s fault? Exclusively? Hmmm, interesting take. Have you got a link to the legislation that allows him to ENFORCE mask wearing? I?ll wait...

When I was last out on Thursday people

> on buses were still NOT wearing masks, getting on

> without one on and then after getting seated maybe

> putting a mask on. It is a joke. Until we have

> proper enforcement things will not improve. How

> long will tier 4 last, I'm guessing till at least

> the end of January and potentially till after 14th

> Feb.

That sound very much like individuals exercising that ?personal responsibility? the govt has placed so much faith in. If they?d passed binding legislation that enforced mask-wearing, could be a different story...

>

> It didn't help with the ridiculous scenes of

> selfish people rushing to mainline stations in

> London to "escape" tier 4 last night, even though

> Chris Witty when asked about unpacking a travel

> bag said yes, don't travel. At some stage all

> these people will return over the coming weeks.

Ah, now you?re getting it!

Boris desperately, desperately doesn?t want to tell people they can?t do this or that. Yeah. I get it. No one wants to be that person. But he was elected to do something very different and as Harold Wilson famously didn?t actually say ?Events, dear boy, events!? have steamrollered all over his bumbling ?man of the people? schtick - Christ, the poor guy got it himself - and the ideologically driven cabinet he?d already installed to drive other political forces was utterly unsuited to the demands of 2020. He?s only now figuring out what kind of PM he has to be get through this, but whether he can actually *be* that person remains to be seen.

Blame Sadiq if you want, but he isn?t the one making the decisions or passing laws. Neither is Andy Burnham or any other regional mayor. You want Covid marshals? Go tell Downing Street.

[tomdhu]

I deeply sympathise with small retail businesses, in particular the hospitality trade, however these are unique times and difficult problems we are facing. But don't forget the Covid virus is only spread by social interaction and the hospitality trade operates exclusively in a socially interactive environment. Bricks and mortar retail less so.

In such adverse situations it is inevitable that we look for scapegoats e.g. the PM and Saddiq Khan but they both have made well-considered decisions based on professional advice. Neither has made an outrageous decision and what they have decided is consistent with decisions in other European countries.

There will be winners and losers for sure. Amazon is one one these but many others have done well e.g. DIY shops, hardware, bakers, greengrocers. Like wise many have reworked their business model to survive. For example we now have direct home delivery from fishmongers, florists, green grocers.

It will be very difficult for certain retailers but this virus will be defeated.

[Jules-and-Boo]

There is that, but the suddenness of T4 in the run up to Christmas is especially tough

[Penguin68]

Yes I'm sorry to say that the selfish or stupid behaviour of some has lead to us all being in tier 4.

I don't think that's quite right. We all learned how to handle ourselves relatively safely with the old variant of Covid-19, hence London numbers were coming down, particularly in the SE quadrant.- this new one which accounts for 60% of London cases appears to be much more catching, so what we were doing safely isn't any longer.

So we weren't being selfish or stupid, just acting what had become 'normally' for the conditions we knew about. And not the new conditions imposed by the mutated virus.

[DiD]

Can we order some of your fish/shellfish @Sheff

[Bony Fido]

If Johnson hasn't resigned by December 25th there's no justice.

[jazzer]

who do you think should replace him

[binkylilyput]

So sorry to hear about your restaurant struggles.

Please consider listing what you've got.....folks on this forum could be interested, myself included. If you are able to do local drop-offs then all the better. Lots of people trying to plan a last minute Christmas dinner of some kind while also trying to avoid long queues.

sheff Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Absolutely no way more compensation is coming..

> They are inept.

> Tier 3 regulations allowed businesses to claim a

> poxy 3k for every 28 days of closure, dependent on

> rates value. So for the likes of Lordship lane it

> will be less.

>

> Now, we?ve got 5 restaurants, each in a different

> borough. And you claim via each local authority.

> It?s a myriad of forms, none are the same and some

> haven?t even got the forms ready for the November

> lockdown.

>

> As for stock, that?s a killer. If it?s perishable

> doubly so.

> We binned or donated thousands of pounds in stock

> when T3 hit our restaurants last week.

> We started direct to consumer boxes in May to get

> revenue. Yesterday?s last minute decision means

> we?ve got 100k of fish and shellfish arriving for

> deliveries Mon-Wed, many of which customers are

> trying to cancel as we speak.

> Now, suck up the loss, or stick to the T&C and

> lose a customer for good.

> The shelters of London will be eating some pretty

> awesome fish over Xmas.

>

> I had cheese ordered from Mon being delivered to

> my parents, rather than cancel I?ve just

> redirected

> to their shop and I?ll just be eating cheese at

> Xmas!!

>

> Restaurants won?t be open until end of Feb in

> London, we?ve buried ourselves in debt, and will

> be loading more on to survive Jan/Feb...

>

> But, Jeff at friendly Amazon has made 100bn so

> somethings at least working... Lucky our

> Chancellor?s negotiating their tax position, not

> complicated by his wife having a huge investment

> in an Amazon JV in India...

[JohnL]

Don't Amazon just act as a store front - so technically if you have too much of something you can sell it via Amazon.

(just checked and this is just part of Amazon called "Amazon StoreFronts - but of course Datacenters are being replaced by AWS - so the whole thing is much bigger than just retail)

I used Amazon when it sold computer books and nothing else mind. I remember how they destroyed the rest of the technical books market in the mid 90s then just took that model and started elsewhere.

[Pugwash]

I very reluctantly do on line shopping. I prefer to view goods in person but with the closure of so many retailers over the past 5 years or so, I am forced to go on line.

I ordered a book from Amazon for my granddaughter as both local bookshops and WH Smith's were closed. When I was doing my Practice Teaching qualification at Greenwich University - to purchase books required would have cost me over ?200 new, so used Amazon and got 2nd hand ones for less than ?80.

Have purchased stuff from Amazon over the years, mainly because the items needed could not be obtained from retails stores in the area (even going as far a field as Croydon and Bromley ). I am lucky that I have good neighbours would would take in parcels etc.