Pre fab bungalow site on LL

[emma82]

I noticed when driving up Lordship Lane this weekend that one of the prefab bungalow sites is now up for sale. Does anyone know who with or if it has already been sold?

[Cora]

Think the council owns it?

[tfwsoll]

It is only the empty one on the left that is being sold. Southwark own it. The lovely guy that lives in the right hand prefab is understandably concerned about his future.

[QuadElite]

The Prefabs are owned by the Southwark council there are three Prefabs and close members of my family lived in the prefab behind the two in front from 1962 until 2011.

That is 49 Years, along time.

[maxxi]

It is the site that is being sold and is advertised as 'for development' so be prepared for lots of developers competing to see who can cram the most flatlets into the permitted volume.

[Miacis]

Do hope the lovely guy in the right hand prefab is ok. His garden is just stunning and something that brings a smile to so many people who walk or travel down ll on the bus.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I heard that they're building a block of 900 luxury sleeping shelves for young professionals. Prices start at ?350,000.

[Jeremy]

Wouldn't be surprised to see houses built instead of flats. Similar price per sq ft, cheaper build costs, and more demand.

[computedshorty]

This site was where my Doctor Hunter had his surgery, I remember the bomb dropping just a few houses down opposite where I lived, when the site was cleared it revealed the two houses that could only be accessed from down an alley from Milo Road, there was also a tennis court and the Scout Hut.

Whats the bet that a develloper will want that ground as well?

Here is the Recorded reference.

22/8/1944 Lordship lane East Dulwich.

This V1 in Lordship lane fell on the West side just South of the junction with Townley Road. It demolished 20 houses in Lordship lane and damaged 130 others in Lordship Lane, Beauval Road and Heber Road. The impact site is very clear to see particularly on the West side of Lordship lane where the site is still partly populated with pre-fabs. The other side of the road has also been re-developed post-war. I person was killed.

[QuadElite]

Yes Dr Hunter was my Nana's doctor and my Nana lived in the prefab behind the two in front.

My Nana used to find the old medicine bottles in the ground after the WW2 bombing.

[computedshorty]

Doctor Hunter & Dr Pitman had to set up a surgery on the corner of Townley Road it is still there, but Dr Hunter died he advised me to stop smoking, as he was dying of cancer through smoking.

This bomb fell just 17 days after the one down the road on the Co-op, this time only 14 houses and a church away from our home. The bomb fell in the night but we were not allowed to look until it got light, our doctors surgery had gone , I found a glass jar with human bits preserved in it that was lying in the road, mum would not let me keep it!.

One of the houses was the one that the builder Greenaway & Son used as an office that I would in later date go to work for and build Prefabs.

We had our roof off again. I think that the church being so high had protected our house from more damage than we would have got.

[QuadElite]

I'm going to be upset when they knock down my Nana's house it has been so much apart of my life.

[tfwsoll]

Thanks computedshorty - your reminiscences are always fascinating. I live a few doors away from the prefabs and often wonder what it would have been like to have been so close to such devastation.

As I said before, the lovely guy with the fabulous garden is worried about his future. Given the premium land values round here I am sure he will be under pressure to move out. He's been offered support by some locals so he knows that people are behind him.

[computedshorty]

If I were a little younger I would try to buy the Prefab, but now it is beyond me to dismantle and transport to the rural site I have in Kent.

I could oversee the re-erecction of it.

I remember putting the formers in position to cast the concrete base, leaving an internal hole for the toilet pipes, then the Copper Damp Coarse that hung down outside, that must be worth its weight in gold now.

It could be classed as a farm building not for habitation.

Recent picture Att.

[computedshorty]

It now looks like the Prefab will have to be demolished and removed in sealed containers to an infill site to be buried.

It is unclear whether the owners Southwark Council who is respocible knowing that it is a Health Hazard will remove it prior to sale, or pass it on as mentioned in the deeds as Plot and any buildings thereon.

They will then have the power to oversee the demolition is done to Their Regulations.

I remember that the outer walls were made of a four foot wide by eight foot high Panels of compressed Asbestos then a frame of timber and lined inside with a compacted soft board, to make the prefab of eight panels front and back and five panels at the two sides, this used the 4x8 sheets without being cut using 32 sheets of asbestos.

These were erected starting at the corner propped up by a scaffold board, jointed together working from a corner made the panels stay upright as more panels were added, as soon as an internal wall section could be added to give strength.

Findings on this are;

Prefab demolition led to fatal asbestos cancer

Mesothelioma caused by exposure to asbestos

A man who developed the asbestos-related cancer mesothelioma after being exposed to the deadly dust while demolishing prefabricated houses has received compensation from his former employer only weeks before his death from the disease.

John Manniex, from Leigh in Greater Manchester, tragically died on 1 July. But he lived to see the company he worked for in the late 1960s agree to pay out after a legal battle that ended in a three day trial at the Royal Courts of Justice.

Mr Manniex worked for the demolition company Mee and Cocker (Leigh) Limited, which was based at Peacock Fold in Leigh. He was employed to demolish prefabricated houses so that the aluminium used in their construction could be reclaimed. He worked as part of a gang that travelled all over the North West, West Midlands and Wales.

Demolition of properties containing asbestos

His job involved the demolition of thousands of prefab properties with roofs that were lined with asbestos . He would also take out the kitchens and he recalled that the built in ovens ? something of a novelty at the time ? were insulated with asbestos sheeting.

Before his death, Mr Manniex described the conditions: ?We used to push the asbestos panels out from the roofs and let them drop to the floor. As they dropped they broke up and asbestos dust would be released. We would have that dust around us as we continued to demolish the building.

?Mee & Cocker were merely concerned with the aluminium roofs on the houses. At no stage did they ever warn us of the dangers of the asbestos that we were disturbing. We were never given a mask or alerted to the danger to our health.?

But his employer denied that the prefabs contained asbestos. Their lawyers argued that asbestos was not used in aluminium prefabricated housing.

Asbestos was known as the "magic mineral". It was used for many industrial purposes and many people in the 1900's used it within their employment. It wasn't until the mid 1970's that the dangers of asbestos became generally recognised and action was taken. The individual asbestos fibres can not be seen by the naked eye, nor a normal microscope and when inhaled or ingested, the tiny indestructible fibres lodge inside the body and can not be removed by the body in the normal way. These particles remain latent in the areas and it is often the case that asbestos related diseases do not manifest until decades later.

All types of asbestos can cause disease. Blue and brown asbestos were known to be the most dangerous but white asbestos can cause the disease.

I think that a Warning Notice should be posted at the site.

[wrs10]

"His job involved the demolition of thousands of prefab properties with roofs that were lined with asbestos"

But there are only 3 bungalows on this plot. There is a lot of hysteria generated about asbestos but, as pointed out, there are basically 3 kinds of asbestos white, blue and brown. The blue and brown ones really are hazardous but the white stuff has risks so low that the precautionary measures taken to handle it are a bit of a scam. I lived in a prefab 1958-1961 and then moved to a new-build, two hundred yards from an asbestos cement factory, which continued to operate for more than a decade. Not only have I not developed mesothelioma but I do not know anyone who has. So long as the fibres remain locked up in the panels there is no signifigant risk. Worry more about the fumes from the main road!

[steveo]

I'll do it.

Me and my brother used to sit on an asbestos roof flicking it at each other.

Maybe I'm immune

[Grindrod]

Love those prefabs.

I live down the road in Forest Hill and am writing a social history book about the postwar rebuilding of Britain, starting with prefabs. I'm really keen to interview people who have lived in prefabs ? if anyone is interested do let me know, ta!

John

[DOTE]

For those interested the new owner of the site has applied for planning permission on the site for 2 sets of flats, each set containing 2 three bedroom flats, 2 two bedroom flats, and 2 single bedroom flats. And a house! All while keeping the remaining bungalow thats privately owned (the one with the lovely garden). Seems like quite a lot to squeeze into the space. Details on Southwark's planning register online, including artists impressions of what the site will look like, opportunity to comment etc. link below:

http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/planningonline2/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=9549466

[david_carnell]

Why is it listed as 236 and 240 Lordship Lane?

Presumably the other bungalow is 238? So there is something being built either side of it?

Reminds me of the scenes from Up.

[DOTE]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Why is it listed as 236 and 240 Lordship Lane?

>

> Presumably the other bungalow is 238? So there is

> something being built either side of it?

>

> Reminds me of the scenes from Up.

That's pretty much it - if you look at the plans you'll see the flats go to the left of the remaining bungalow (as you look at it from lordship lane), then the house is behind the bungalow (and accessed from the lane you can see to the right of the bungalow).

[QuadElite]

The plans are stupid my Dad and Nana lived in 236 until both passed away and I gave the keys to the council and was the last person to see that house apart from southward council workers and I can tell you yes there is a lot of room but it will be very difficult to build what they are planning and still leave the house in front. But I understand he loves he's house and has been there since just after my Grandparents moved there in 1962.

[DOTE]

It's not a done deal yet - I imagine any developer probably tries to get planning permission for more than they think the council will go for in order to maximise profits, so perhaps these plans will be rejected or toned down. I imagine there will be a great deal of opposition from neighbours on Lordship Lane due to the size of the site and the lack of parking, and from a large number of houses on Beauval Road who won't want a house and flats at the bottom of their gardens! Whether it fits in with the street is another point. And as for the remaining bungalow, hopefully the council will make sure any development does not have an adverse effect on him. You can comment on the planning application either by following the link below and scrolling to the bottom of the page:

http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/planningonline2/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=9549466

Or by emailing [email protected] (you must quote the application number which is 13/AP/1283 and you must give a postal address for your opinion to be taken into account, there's plenty of details on how to comment on the council website).

Whatever your views on the development very much worth commenting while the window is open for the next week or so.

[NowAndHere]

wrs10 Wrote:

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> "(...)There is a lot of hysteria generated about

> asbestos but, as pointed out, there are basically

> 3 kinds of asbestos white, blue and brown. The

> blue and brown ones really are hazardous but the

> white stuff has risks so low that the

> precautionary measures taken to handle it are a

> bit of a scam. (...)"

To be very exact there are 6 kinds of asbestos: crocidolite, amosite, chrysotile, fibrous anthophyllite, fibrous actinolite and fibrous tremolite but only first three were commercialy used. The other ones can sometimes be found as contamination - like Crayola crayons contaminted with tremolite some years ago.

Chrysotile (white asbestos) IS dangerous too, just less than crocidolite and amosite.

[lizzie]

There's a fab photography exhibition on at Photofusion in Brixton on prefabs by the photographer Elisabeth Blanchet: http://www.photofusion.org/exhibitions/elisabeth-blanchet/

Quite a lot of pictures from Catford, Dulwich, Peckham, Nunhead

Also there's a tour of one of the Catford prefab estates on Saturday 20 July