Fined ?75 for dropping a cigar butt - fair?

[SteveT]

Not fair far too expensive for the punishment to fit the crime!

Although it has certainly concentrated our minds Sean on dropping any litter of any description any where.

[JohnL]

I find the spitting much worse than fag dropping, I don't want TB thanks.

I don't even think spitting is against the law - maybe we should invest in a job lot of spittoons.

[SteveT]

Isn't that a Gob lot of spitoons;-)

[HonaloochieB]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I find the spitting much worse than fag dropping,

> I don't want TB thanks.

>

> I don't even think spitting is against the law -

> maybe we should invest in a job lot of spittoons.

You know I miss that old spitoon...

[Mikey]

?75 seems excessive - they should have given you a warning first.

How did you get to the figure of ?16,000 ?

[citizenED]

The solution lies not in tackling the dropping of litter - it lies in how we go about picking it up. Given that there will always be litter simply because a gust of wind might blow litter out of a bin, a fox might rip open a black bin liner and, of course some people will never consider the dropping of trash on the public highway to be wrong, my suggestion is that next time you walk down the road and see a piece of litter, as a good member of the community, pick it up and put it in a bin.

[giddygecko]

Hurrah, good onya & big it up to CitizenED if only there were more like you >:D<

Gex

[Bellenden Belle]

citizenED Wrote:

------------------

> Given that there will always be litter simply

> because a gust of wind might blow litter out of a

> bin, a fox might rip open a black bin liner and,

> of course some people will never consider the

> dropping of trash on the public highway to be

> wrong, my suggestion is that next time you walk

> down the road and see a piece of litter, as a good

> member of the community, pick it up and put it in

> a bin.

CitizenEd,

That is absolutely wonderful. What I love about your post is that it actually explains one of the reasons we litter and rather than blaming bad upbringing, ignorance, or any other behaviour that people could feel defensive over, it places the problem in the arms of the world - in the wind, literally!

And your solution is beautiful too. And simple. And something we could all do today.

BUT - how many of us would? We would probably feel a bit odd, wouldn't we? People might see us doing it and think us a bit strange? And that's not very motivating is it?

But - work with me guys here ...what if we could post on a thread - giving just two bits of info - what litter, and where. We might do it, maybe? Knowing we could bask in our lovely fellow forumites admiration and praise? The whole act would take about three minutes - including the litter busting and the posting ... but would probably leave a glow for hours. Not a great big Ready Brek glow, but just a nice little one....(because dear forumites we wouldn't want to be smug now would we?).

What do people think... should I start a thread in the lounge?

EDF - fighting the brave fight - 2008 litter....2009 world peace

[SteveT]

Well I always feel smug when I have collected litter off the street where I live. I drop it in my wheelie bin, which is wheelie wheelie handy, then I feel growly at the dustmen when they remove the black bags and leave the rest of the street/front-garden litter in the bottom of the bin lazy gits.

It actually makes me feel 'holier than thou' when I tidy litter from in and around my front garden.

Maybe a more suitable post name is SmugT;-)

[PeckhamRose]

Well I also pick up the litter which is specially smug-making when I say to people who may be near me, " Would anyone like to help me pick up this litter?" and sometimes some do and sometimes some don't, but either way I pick it up. Halo drops when I also add I am a motorcyclist. I mean, blinder999 wrote about me on the roadbumps thread "And bikers on the moral highground wtf???" so I must be bad bad bad bad. It's frightening isn't it: bikers doing good things. I know a couple who are even blood donors. Some are advanced motorists and none of them throw litter out their car windows because they don't have any! But to be a litterbug is even worse than being a motorcyclist, in my opinion.

Southwark Council reckon if you see someone driving their car and you get a good description of them and their car and the registration number, that if you see them throwing litter out of their car when on Southwark roads you can report them and they WILL write to the owners (who have probably just reported the car as stolen, of course!) and fine them. Me, I can't be arsed. I just follow them and throw the litter back in their open windows. Much more fun. Specially if the cigar(ette) still has a lit end.

[giddygecko]

What a great idea Rose.... I might try that as I zoom past on my little 125cc

Gex

[Sue]

I was in Oxford recently on granny duties, and a group of shop assistants were having a fag outside their shop.

They turned to go back inside, and one threw a lit cigarette end behind her without looking, and it very nearly hit my granddaughter (in her buggy, not yet one) in the face.

All I can say is, none of them will ever do that again !!!!!

And as my daughter said later, if I hadn't noticed it, it could have landed on the buggy or on her clothes and set her on fire.

Doesn't bear thinking about really.

I also once got a lit cigarette butt stuck between my toes when I was walking along wearing sandals.

I'm all for fining people who drop litter.

I did once pick up litter when I saw people drop it and say "excuse me I think you dropped this", but I wouldn't do it these days, so Rose you have my utmost admiration !!!!

[PeckhamRose]

Thank you.

I don't do it every time I see it happening!

But when I see someone and I am on the bike and am confident of my "out", I do it.

and writing the words here can't do justice to the very very nice unthreatening positively delightful way I choose to approach the littering scum on the street, always within hearing distance of possible witnesses!

[Sue]

I have obviously morphed into a complete wimp :))

[christian952]

Some people may be responding to this post saying that these cig buts are litter...however, with any change in legislation, it is no good just fining people without any prior warning, this needs to be publicised first with signs and a public information campaign. If people are going to be fined for dropping cigarette buts, are any of the fat, scruffy louts littering our streets with matresses and old MacDonalds wrappers being fined? The world has gone crazy for sure!

[HonaloochieB]

HonaloochieB Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I find the spitting much worse than fag

> dropping,

> > I don't want TB thanks.

> >

> > I don't even think spitting is against the law

> -

> > maybe we should invest in a job lot of

> spittoons.

>

>

> You know I miss that old spitoon...

...yep, you always did.

It's come to this now has it?

Reduced to being my own 'feed'?

[bignumber5]

seanmlow Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They were obviously not very bright individuals

> and it winds me up that they get paid MORE THAN

> TRAINEE NURSES!

I haven't sifted through the whole of this thread to see if anyone has replied to this particluar comment, but steady on seanmlow:

First challenge, to the apparent intelligence of the community wardens. These are people who want work, are willing to do shit work if that's all that's going, and are willing to get paid not a great deal for doing so. That seems like a person without whom our great nation would be utterly buggered as the shit jobs need doing too and are obviously necessary since as the litterer in question, you are demonstrating no insight and perhaps need fining in order to iniate a change in your behaviour.

How does doing their job make them unintelliegent? Because they were not open to being reasoned with? I had this chat with a traffic warden once: he was just slapping me with a ticket when I got there, and I had a go at reasoning with him. He said sorry, already written. I went for a rather petulent "does this really satisfy you?" and receive a calm "not really, but I have a wife with a baby on the way and it's a job: the council give you this when you start because no-one would do it out of choice, and if I play it by the numbers for 18months then I can transfer onto something a bit less hated." I apologised profusely, went home feeling awful and have never back-chatted to a public servant since.

To the second charge, the cash recieved by student nurses: When I did my nurses training, I paid no tuiton fees (because student nurses don't), got a decent-ish grant (enough to cover rent and utility bills) and I wasn't pushed so hard that I couldn't fit in enough part-time work to cover the rest of my costs. And i still pissed a fair amount of it up against the wall: rather than very victorian sounding trainee nurses, student nurses are still students.

Sorry to come down hard, seanmlow, but that just crawled under my skin a bit.

[giddygecko]

>:D< GOOD ONYA & Bigging it up to bignumber5 yay

[Sue]

Agree with all you said, Bignumber5.

Am tempted to have a rant, but won't.

And litter is litter, whether it's a food wrapper or a cigar/cigarette butt, Christian 952, surely people don't need a public information campaign to tell them that.

And as I previously posted, cigarette ends are not just litter but potentially dangerous, particularly to small children.

:X

[omgwtfpwn]

bignumber5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> seanmlow Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > They were obviously not very bright individuals

> > and it winds me up that they get paid MORE THAN

> > TRAINEE NURSES!

>

>

> I haven't sifted through the whole of this thread

> to see if anyone has replied to this particluar

> comment, but steady on seanmlow:

>

> First challenge, to the apparent intelligence of

> the community wardens. These are people who want

> work, are willing to do shit work if that's all

> that's going, and are willing to get paid not a

> great deal for doing so. That seems like a person

> without whom our great nation would be utterly

> buggered as the shit jobs need doing too and are

> obviously necessary since as the litterer in

> question, you are demonstrating no insight and

> perhaps need fining in order to iniate a change in

> your behaviour.

>

> How does doing their job make them unintelliegent?

> Because they were not open to being reasoned with?

> I had this chat with a traffic warden once: he was

> just slapping me with a ticket when I got there,

> and I had a go at reasoning with him. He said

> sorry, already written. I went for a rather

> petulent "does this really satisfy you?" and

> receive a calm "not really, but I have a wife with

> a baby on the way and it's a job: the council give

> you this when you start because no-one would do it

> out of choice, and if I play it by the numbers for

> 18months then I can transfer onto something a bit

> less hated." I apologised profusely, went home

> feeling awful and have never back-chatted to a

> public servant since.

>

> To the second charge, the cash recieved by student

> nurses: When I did my nurses training, I paid no

> tuiton fees (because student nurses don't), got a

> decent-ish grant (enough to cover rent and utility

> bills) and I wasn't pushed so hard that I couldn't

> fit in enough part-time work to cover the rest of

> my costs. And i still pissed a fair amount of it

> up against the wall: rather than very victorian

> sounding trainee nurses, student nurses are still

> students.

>

> Sorry to come down hard, seanmlow, but that just

> crawled under my skin a bit.

lol bignumber 5 :)

I couldnt actually find that post so i'm gonna quote your one but directing it to SEAN :

Erm excuse me who do you think you are? Just because you smoke cigars and put the words "whom our great nation" in a sentence does not make you intelligent. I guessing student nurse -- you failed med school perhaps? or did not even get accepted? Sounds like your just bitter about losing ?75 out of your tightwad pocket..want my advice stop smoking cigars you pompous git! Its people like you that give student nurses a bad name.

I applaud thoses officers who gave you a fine and i think you deserve it!

I have wardens in my area and have spoken to them on a number of occasions and they don't strike me as particularly unintelligent. What makes you so great? Get real and stop speaking like a war veteran...What a looser.. stop litetring our streets you YOB.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I feel the need to point out once again that if people are going to refer to "Sean" and it's not me they are irked with can they spell out Seanmlow please... I keep getting palpitations "who have I upset now!?"

But bignumber5 (as opposed to the other bignumbers on here ;-) ) - great post .

Obviously opinions are different but to have a go at someone like the wardens it's important to have some context and not to just play the victim (see also parking wardens, smoking ban etc)

It would be great if these things weren't needed but they haven't come out of thin air - there is massive support for an aggressive litter campaign. There has been "no litter" signs up for donkeys years - people don't pay heed. Ther have been signs warning of fines for years - still behaviour doesn't change. And when a fine does materialise it's all "where was my prior warning?"

[Sue]

Hear Hear SeanMac.

I am delighted that finally people are actually being fined for dropping litter.

Maybe a few hard lessons need to be learned by some so that we can live in a decent environment with clean streets.

[bignumber5]

omgwtfpwn, i'm really not sure who you're annoyed with, me or seanmlow... the "whom our great nation" bit was me ::o

[PeckhamRose]

Whaddya mean you want signs and prior warning? Yeah the world has gone crazy - WE NEED MORE SIGNS telling us what we morally know to be true anyway.

Since when do we need warning and signs that it is WRONG to drop litter, cross a red light, drive badly, text when crossing the road and not looking, etc etc? When did you stop using common sense and start needing law makers to TELL you something is wrong and to tell you that you would be fined?

What saddens me is that people claim they did not know they could be fined, because that's like saying "I knew it was wrong, but I did not know there was a law because there were no signs and prior warnings everywhere and if I did know I did not think I would get caught so assumed I could get away with it."

And YES, what makes you think that people throwing mattresses out and dropping MCDonald's litter are not being fined? Do you follow the Community Wardens around all day every day on their shifts?

I tell you what, go talk to them, and/or go to your local Police Ward Panel meeting and meet them and the Safer Neighbourhood Team meeting folk police and ask them what they do. I dare you. Find out. Stop whinging on here. Take responsibility.

Grrrrrrr!

christian952 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Some people may be responding to this post saying

> that these cig buts are litter...however, with any

> change in legislation, it is no good just fining

> people without any prior warning, this needs to be

> publicised first with signs and a public

> information campaign. If people are going to be

> fined for dropping cigarette buts, are any of the

> fat, scruffy louts littering our streets with

> matresses and old MacDonalds wrappers being fined?

> The world has gone crazy for sure!

[HonaloochieB]

I think what needs to be done is to attach a strap line to all the signs that threaten us with

fines for littering and fouling etc at the moment.

It wouldn't be expensive and might give litterers and foulers pause for thought.

I think it could say LOOK WE WERE KIND OF PISSING ABOUT IN THE PAST BUT WE F@CKING MEAN IT FROM NOW ON.

It'd make me stop and think, I can tell you.