Fined ?75 for dropping a cigar butt - fair?

[Doodles]

Or, maybe, try not dropping your crap on the floor for someone else to deal with?

[willow]

Going back to the title of the thread, I think it's perfectly fair to be fined for dropping a cigarette butt. Litter is litter and it still sends out a message of contempt and disregard for the local environment. Everyone knows it's wrong and anti-social. You can't cry foul play just coz you got caught and someone else didn't. That's like protesting when you get sapped by a speed camera when you know that other cars that have been speeding have gotten away with it.

[mikese22]

barrymarshall Wrote:

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> On the one hand, it is fair enough to penalise

> people for littering. However, there are very few

> places where you can put your used fag-end/cigar

> butt. It is one thing to fine people, another not

> to make it easy to get rid of your rubbish.

Rubbish! (excuse the pun) - there are loads of bins and failing that you can always take the butt home with you... if we all took that line then people would be p***ing in the streets and justifying by saying that Southwark haven't provided enough toilets; or spitting because the council haven't provided spittoons!

we all need to grow up and take responsibility for our actions / habits

[benjaminty]

As someone mentioned before... it was just leaves! I feel for you SeanMlow to be honest. Not only did you drop something biodegradable and get fined for it, but at the very same time some "real" wrong doers were left "undealt" with because of their numbers and demeanour. (Although not sure the fact it was biodegradable was going through your mind - feel free to correct me?)

If I were you I'd feel totally p1ssed too!

If all of you posting and telling SML he's a naughty boy actually stopped and thought about how you have been a little hard done by .... ? bitter pills to swallow.. Yes he did wrong but we all hate double standards.

[willow]

benjaminty Wrote:

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> As someone mentioned before... it was just leaves!

> I feel for you SeanMlow to be honest. Not only

> did you drop something biodegradable and get fined

> for it, but at the very same time some "real"

> wrong doers were left "undealt" with because of

> their numbers and demeanour. (Although not sure

> the fact it was biodegradable was going through

> your mind - feel free to correct me?)

>

> If I were you I'd feel totally p1ssed too!

>

> If all of you posting and telling SML he's a

> naughty boy actually stopped and thought about how

> you have been a little hard done by .... ?

> bitter pills to swallow.. Yes he did wrong but we

> all hate double standards.

It's really beside the point that the litter was biodegradable! What a silly argument. Does that mean that the street sweepers should leave all biodegradable waste on the pavement where people have dropped it because it will rot anyway? Does the same rationale apply to biodegradable dog poo I wonder? We'd get people skidding all over the place with rotting banana skins and then sueing the council!

[Ladygooner]

I think your fine is ridiculous! Surely a polite "can you pick up your cigar butt" would have sufficed?! Who are these people? Do they belong to the council? Where does the money go? England is getting more and more big brotherish every day!

I would appeal - did you have to pay cash or did you have to give your name and address? How do they know people are giving the correct details?

[Polly D]

I agree with missd and not just because she is another miss d. Was thinking about this post on the cycle home as at least two people at bus stops chucked their still-lit fags into the road as I cycled past. What's the problem with stubbing it out on the bin and chucking it away in said bin?

It's like dog poo. Pick it up. I don't want your dog poo and I don't want your fag butt.

missd Wrote:

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> maybe unfair that you got fined so much

> immediately, without even a warning

>

> however.....i am sure you might think twice before

> you throw a butt on the floor again.

>

> and if it makes people think twice then that's a

> good thing (in my opinion of course).

[Oglandia]

Seanmlow I'm 100% in your corner. 75 quid is ridiculous. And for all you lot squeaking about littering - wake up and smell the soot, this is London not Dingley Dell Hamlet Shropshire. He was actually making the f**king place smell better.

[bawdy-nan]

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread. Its bad luck about the cash, but you must be aware that littering isn't allowed. You seem to be adopting the same moany stance as motorists caught speeding. Just don't do it.

I do love the idea of being made to clear up after yourself in a shiny tabard.

On the bright sidefor you - you'll probably be pleased to hear that as well as shutting the Livesey the council are also cutting community wardens.

Still larding it out on consultants however.

[SeanMacGabhann]

You do realise it's possible to live in one of the world's major cities and not have it look like a student-flat right?

Even once-scuzzy New York has cleaned up it's act in many boroughs - it's not something to be proud of, litter, you know. You don't have to be Angela Lansbury in Dingley Dell to not want to wade through crap.

[missd]

Too right Sean, and i totally agree with Polly D too - litter is nothing to be proud of.

Dog poo, cigarette butts being thrown on the floor and people spitting in the street are the three things that i can't stand when walking around London.

Again, maybe the amount of the fine is unfair but you did something wrong and you should be fined for it. It will also mean that you (probably) won't do it again quite so quickly.

[seanmlow]

London is becoming more and more Big Brother like, under the Orwellian control of Ken L.

People seem to be misunderstanding me - I AM AGAINST LITTER! All I am saying is that the fine is TOO STEEP!

I would have understood a spot fine system, but the reason people get so irriated is that it just simply doesn't add up. I refer again to the fact that speeding and running red lights are potentially fatal, but carry a lower fine.

I love ED and want it to stay clean, I really do.

I was actually stopped in Bromley for dropping a napkin by accident - I had to chase it all the way up the high street (leaving my meal), to avoid a fine.

Do we want ED this way? Is there not a happy medium?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Crazy over-statement SeanM

People seem to be misunderstanding me - I AM AGAINST LITTER! All I am saying is that the fine is TOO STEEP!

Leaving aside the disparity in fines for different offences - the whole point of a fine is to be steep enough to make you not do it again. Not only are you unlikely to do it again but many people reading this thread will also think twice now

This is A Good Thing!

Not Orwellian - just effective

Now the wider problem about speeding and uneven application of fines is a seperate issue and should be addressed for sure. But it doesn't make it an Orwellian Nightmare Under Ken

(it be be becoming an Orwellian Nightmare under the government - but that's a different story too)

[annaj]

SeanML,

There is really nothing much to discuss here. You broke the law, got caught, got fined.

Is ?75 too much? Not if it stops you doing it again. Also several people have said it should be ?50 within 10 days, so if you check you may find it is ?50.

Is it wrong that it's more than your sister's fine? Yes, she should have been fined more, but that doesn't mean you should have been fined less.

And if you "AGAINST LITTERING" why did you drop it in the first place?

I feel really strongly about always paying for public transport, I think it's wrong and unfair to skip fairs. One night coming home from work late, after a long weekend on duty the inspectors got on the bus. It was only when I got my Oyster out that I realised I'd let my travel card expire the day before (confused about dates). It is the only time in my life I have ever travelled without a ticket and my travel card was only out of date by a few hours. The inspector even apologised for having to fine me and suggested I appeal, but the fact is I didn't have a ticket. So, I paid the fine and didn't complain.

That's just life.

[Keef]

Wow have only just seen this thread as not been in this section for days. I'd be gutted if I were you, but at the end of the day you won't have a leg to stand on if you contest it, so you'll have to cough up and feel the sting. Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but for me the most disturbing point is that you were smoking a CIGAR on the street.

[seanmlow]

Haha! Keef - why is that so strange?

annaj - 'nothing much to discuss here' - it's a discussion forum....

[Keef]

Surely dear sir cigars are for the lounge bar after dinner or the birth of a child (whilst your mates' wives visit your missus in hospital).

[seanmlow]

Keef - granted!

Not the most glamourous place to be enjoying one I agree...

[kford]

"They approach people who are not looking like they will attempt to kill them."

So not the gang who regularly drop a plastic bag full of chicken boxes and bones and drinks cartons down our street, then?

[KalamityKel]

A point of observation... the little ashtray on the top of some bins... it's not exactly a seperate bit to the bin. Yes there's the rim bit to stubb out ur smoke and then it all rolls down into the bin itself. My point? One sure does need to make sure it's stubbed out properly AND the lit ash that drops off is fully extinguished - the risk of a bin fire... :-S BLIMEY! Can imagine the fire services being extra pleased at the increase of call outs!

[Al&Em]

People seem to be misunderstanding me - I AM AGAINST LITTER! All I am saying is that the fine is TOO STEEP!

Seanmlow

But surely what you're asking here is that the fine be more affordable so you can afford to pay it and therefore 'choose' to break the rules because it's worth your while?

[KalamityKel]

Al&Em who seriously CAN, out of the everyday chap, afford to pay fines anyway?

The comparison has already been made with speeding fines which are more likely to cause an accident and even fatality. So why should something which can easily be picked up and disposed of properly have a heavy fine?

[Al&Em]

Comparison with speeding fines was clarified that they are 60 min 1000 max, and up to 6 points on licence - so this fine is much cheaper than that...

[KalamityKel]

For dropping a tiny cigarette/cigar? :-|

[*Bob*]

Well it looks like the fine is a rip-roaring success anyway.

There are now at least a thousand people who won't be dropping cigar butts outside Somerfield. Seanmlow has paid the ultimate price (?75) so that those who weren't clear before will now be crystal. However, seeing as it seems to be policy for the wardens not to approach anyone who might give you hassle, the 10% people responsible for dropping 90% of the litter will remain unmolested - and I shall still be picking the KFC boxes out of my hedge every week.