Nurse that took hoax call

[Michael Palaeologus]

It is the broadcasting of the results of the prank call to the humiliation of the victim that is bullying, the prank call was made to be broadcast, the DJs made the call, therefore, they are bullies.

That the broadcast would become a worldwide phenomena was inevitable, that the humiliation would thus be magnified many times was forseeable.

They were unable to gain permission for broadcast, yet the broadcast was made. Promotion of the broadcast continued after it should have been taken down. Its a 24 hour radio station, time difference is no excuse.

I am not saying that the DJs are wholly responsible for the suicide, but they may have contributed to the suicide.

The DJs misery may well be heart felt, but that doesnt absolve them of some responsibility. This should be investigated and if they are found to be partially responsible, they should answer for that.

[Otta]

But the DJs wouldn't have made the decision to broadcast or not broadcast. Point your anger at the radio station if that's how you feel, but I think you are putting it all on these 2 people who were basically just larking about in typical crap radio fashion, as is their job.

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Shattered AND Gutted"

You seem to have missed "heartbroken" but I suspect that was deliberate.

> Lets save our concern and sympathy for the family

> of Jacintha Saldanha.

I hadn't realised sympathy had to be exclusively used on one or the other parties. Of course everyone would sympathise with the family (the DJs included). But I feel sory for these 2 who are no doubt feeling pretty shitty over the whole thing.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think you are being unreasonable MP. You know nothing about these two DJs on a personal level. The shock and remorse they are showing is genuine. Compare that to the behaviour of Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand when they made a prank call that backfired.

As they said in their public statement, they expected to be hung up on pretty sharpish, and given no precedent to the thousands of prank calls radio stations have made day in and day out over the years, thought nothing beyond entertainment value in making it. If they thought for one moment that a tragic outcome was a possibility, they would never have made it.

[Michael Palaeologus]

They are adults, albeit heartbroken adults, and so are answerable for their actions.

"We were only obeying orders" was discredited as a defence after 1945.

Of course the management of the radio station have something to answer for too.

As the public voice/face of the radio station the now heartbroken DJs were happy to bathe in the warm glow of their notoriety, until it all went horribly wrong. They are not the innocent victims of management. They were at best complicit in the decison making that led to the prank call and the broadcast being made.

Ironically, in an era of blame culture and mob mentality. The ED mob seems to want to wrap these two idiots up in cotton wool and protect them from the implications of their actions.

[El Pibe]

Godwin, at effing last.

[red devil]

...that and the ED Mob card eventually being played...

[*Bob*]

Is it bullying if two hapless Australian DJs at the centre of a would-be-harmless=prank-gone-tragically-wrong are pursued and vilified across the globe - in print, on screen - and (of course) on internet forums?

I suspect this probably fits the definition better.

What if one of them is driven to suicide? What if, what if..

[LondonMix]

References to the Nazis in the context of this conversation are wholly uncalled for!

I agree with Bob. I am unfortunate enough to know someone who has committed suicide and have a few friends / family who have been suicidal at different points in their lives. Your ideas about a very complex mental health issue are far too simplistic. Again, anything can tip a suicidal person over the edge. Your idea of justice would require us to investigate and arrest scores of people every time a suicide occurred, particularly as you are including events that are only the straw pushing someone over the edge.

[*Bob*]

I'll take the Godwin though - if it's still on offer?!

[the-e-dealer]

Bunch of Nazis!

[Otta]

What *bob* said. MP your posts seem full of genuine vitriol towards these 2 chumps who you've never met. I remember hearing a prank call years ago when a DJ (I think it was on Radio City, which is Liverpool's answer to Capital) called the Eiffel Tower and asked about admission prices and opening hours, before asking whether there was fencing around the top, he went on to basically tell the receptionist that he was planning to throw himself from the top of the tower.

I remember thinking this was a pretty funny call, and in all honestly, had I heard the call we're all getting so upset about now (I haven't so much as heard a clip yet) and there were barking "corgis" in the background, I'd have thought it was pretty funny. Stupid but funny.

Then someone kills themself, and suddenly it wasn't all that funny after all. But basically they could never have predicted this, and Marmora Man's earlier comparrsion to an arsonist starting a fatal fire just doesn't work for me. Arson is still a serious crime commited by a nutter whether there is a death or not. Making a prank call may be immature and stupid, but there was nothing psychotic about it.

What they should have done, and probably wish they had done was to have ended the call themselves when it was clear they were getting further than they'd expected, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

At the end of the day, it was a joke! A really crap joke, but a joke nonetheless. Should it have been broadcast? Well not the bit that revealed ANYTHING about the state of the patient, but the bit that showed the hospital up as being a bit crap, well why not? Lots of businesses get tested by undercover shoppers and if they fail to act professionally, this gets exposed.

At the end of all that a woman killed herself. That is undoubtedly the real tradgedy in all of this. Why did she do it? NO ONE KNOWS!

Are the DJs secretly loving all this? It's possible, I'll give you that.

Are the DJs absolutely shocked about what has happened, and wish they could rewind time and not make / air the call? I think that is more likely.

Either way, are the DJs responsible for this woman's death? NO.

[BJL]

Perhaps if people had a less grovelling and awestruck attitude to the royal family, a few more questions might have been asked - like "Can I have your name, please madam?".

[DJKillaQueen]

Good point BJL re: the Royal Family and being awestruck.

I'm with *bob* too.....and with londonmix as well. Suicide is a complex issue, like LM I too have a good understanding of depression and related issues. Unfortunately the level of general understanding in society is poor and there are many things that can exacerbate the feelings of a severely depressed person just on a day to day level. It's very easy when someone tragically takes their life to look for a single determining trigger, but the reality is that there are many triggers, underpinned by the depressive illness itself.

I am inclined to ask more about the friends, family and colleagues around her on a day to day basis. And if she felt that she couldn't seek help or confide in anyone then we should be asking why. Underneath that is a whole debate to be had about the difficulties and stigma of coping with mental health issues in this country.

[the-e-dealer]

We will be Nicking Society too.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Otta, to be fair my vitriol is not actually at the DJs, although I think they have a question or two to answer but so does the radio management and the hospital management.

I feel that we live in an increasingly polarised society that on the one hand sees ambulance chasing Solicitors making money from an increasingly litigious culture and on the other hand a tendency to wany to avoid jeopardy for the results of behaviour gone wrong.

Maybe the two are connected?

Society, I think, has rather glorified trivia and trivialisation. Media figures act without an expectation that they will be held account, thus a list of alleged paedophiles can be brandished at the Prime Minister by a minor TV celebrity without any thought that actually, this might be a bad idea. I enjoy Twitter as much as the next voyeur, but some of the participants forget (or ignore) that their tweets that slyly imply are potentially very damaging to individuals.

This all adds to a view that popular public figures can act with impunity, say what they want with little concern for the results on often innocent third parties.

As for all the other commenst, yes I too have been close to suicide. It is always complex, those that remain are left with a sense of guilt that never really goes away (and that sense of anger and betrayal and more guilt because you feel angry at and betrayed by the person that killed themselves) and so it goes.

Finally,

What reference to World War 2? I stated that that particular defence was discredited at a paticular point in time, I didnt imply anything else.

[Otta]

Plus it was after world war 2 had finished.

Fair points about Twitter and celebrity.

[Loz]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is it bullying if two hapless Australian DJs at the centre of a would-be-harmless=prank-gone-tragically-wrong

> are pursued and vilified across the globe - in print, on screen - and (of course) on internet forums?

>

> I suspect this probably fits the definition better.

>

> What if one of them is driven to suicide? What if, what if..

Quite, *Bob*. Having been around this forum for a few years now, so I'm a bit surprised at some of MP's postings on this thread. I know who I think is coming across as the bully here and it ain't the two hapless DJ's.

[Voyageur]

Bullying? Hardly. He talks a lot of sense.

[red devil]

Nonsense...

[Loz]

Voyageur Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bullying? Hardly. He talks a lot of sense.

Would you still have that opinion if you knew that the two DJ's read this forum? Go back and read his posts, imagining you are one of the DJs. How would you feel?

[*Bob*]

There's no suggestion from me that MP is ordinarily anything but a righteous dude on most occasions. I just disagree on this one.

I simply point-out that if bullying is defined as aggressive, repetitive behaviour with the intention of making people suffer, then the collective voices of millions of people calling for two people's head on a platter trumps a one-off, brief encounter which - whatever the tragic result - never intended anything but a lighthearted bit of fun.

[Michael Palaeologus]

It is interesting, "it was just a bit of fun" can be used to justify behaviour that others might find unacceptable.

Particularly if they are on the receiving end.

Particularly if that statement is followed by "you have no sense of humour" or "are you frigid?" or even, "are you a lesbian?" or similar.

Followed by much chapish laughter.

Followed by a profound and corrosive sense of hopelessness on the part of the recipient.

Bullying does not have to be loud and aggressive, it is in some ways worse when it is wrapped up as light hearted banter that surely no right thinking person could possibly be upset by?

[*Bob*]

You confuse justification with intent, when they are not the same.

This 'type of behaviour' has been acceptable, sanctioned - and part of mainstream media for nearly a century, with hardly the bat of an eyelid. But I don't think you'll see it any more.

As with so many things, one tragic incident will have have influence far beyond what is necessary or reasoned.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Even if the intent is not to bully but just to "have a bit of fun", if the impact is that somebody feels bullied, its is bullying.

That the media have been able to behave in this way for so long doesnt make it right.

[*Bob*]

If you're telling me that there is - in your mind - no possibility of pranking and hoaxing - tricks played on members of the general public without malicious intent - 'ever' being acceptable (from Orson Welles, through Candid Camera to Jeremy Beadle) then I find that hard that hard to believe.

But if that's where you're at, then fair enough.