New East Dulwich Primary School 161/80 + 102

[prickle]

Another point of info is that Charter is about the only school in the area that doesn't use fair-banding. It uses proximity instead. Does that make a different to you argument?

[James Barber]

The Charter School was found to have breached its admissions policy by only counting driving routes to the school and not safe walking and cycling routes - safe in terms of the Police telling them they were safe.

The areas excluded in this way being the Champion Hill and East Dulwich council housing estates.

They now appear to have fulfilled the inspector requirements of the appeal against their procedures.

[LondonMix]

No, why do you think it should? The idea was to move beyond the impact of the aggregate results that could be influenced by the admission policy and create a comparison based on progress and results that take into account what students capabilities were when the entered the school to better assess the impact the school rather than the change in the composition of the intake was having.

[Carbonara]

But all schools that use fair banding, with the exception of Kingsdale whihc is a lottery, use proximity within each band. So proximity is till the main test of criteria for admission.

[eco79]

James,

in order for for parents to claim that the Champion Hill estate was within close walking distance, they had to claim Greendales as a safe route to school. Which is odd, as I wouldn't walk down Greedales alone in the dark.

But that's an aside,

How do you start a school? If you're not a big academy/sponsor/rich person? Can a group of people get backing if they can find funding? Is the issue that Harris are so slick at this they can do it quicker than anyone else?

[LondonMix]

Carbonara is that directed to me? Fair banding can either increase the average ability or decrease the avearge ability of the intake compared to only distance. If everyone living right beside a school came from families with high-attaining children, the intake would be less high-attaining after implementing banding and visaversa. If the abilities are already evenly distributed geographically around the school then fair banding has no impact at all on the composition of high / low / medium attainers in the intake.

Unfortunately, schools are usually located in one of the extreme concentrations of ability (as socio-economics impact ability). Richer families can afford to buy homes closer to good schools they want to attend, increasing the concentration of high-attainers due to their socio-economic advantage. Bad schools often have the exact opposite. Being near a good school can increase a houses value by something crazy like 20% in some areas.

Fair banding tries to neutralise this. It also tries to mix the attainment population of less popular schools as this benefits low attainers for a variety of reasons.

Carbonara Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But all schools that use fair banding, with the

> exception of Kingsdale whihc is a lottery, use

> proximity within each band. So proximity is till

> the main test of criteria for admission.

[LondonMix]

The reason why people highlighted this is that a failing school that used only distance is converted into an academy that uses ability bands has a significant increase in total percentage of students getting 5 good GCSE's, it could easily be the result of more able students making up a larger portion of the intake following fair-banding and new interest in the school post-conversion. That's why we looked at how students progressed based on their starting attainment level when they entered the school vs Charter and national expectations as well as discussing value add scores which relate to this too.

[eco79]

I genuinely don't believe fair banding was set up to neautralise the problems of academically polarised schools!

A school should be there to serve it's local community, whoever that community are. It shouldn't pick and choose to benefit a few.

[LondonMix]

If all schools were universally of the same quality I'd agree with you. But as long there are still major quality differences, distance criteria alone essentially allows the middle class to buy their way into good schools via house prices. Do you think ED Harris Academies would have an intake that included 35%-40% of its students on free lunch without fairbanding?

Anyway, we can debate the merits of various admission systems all day! Maybe another thread in the Drawing Room so not to hijack this one?

[eco79]

I think we're done :) I can't stand it when all my spare time gets sucked in to trying to argue a point on the forum! Good chat though.

[Scruffy Mummy]

Dear Eco79,

They did not use or win the appeal about Charter School using the Greendale Route. They won on Wanley Road - a perfectly safe short road which runs from the bottom of the Champion Hill Estate. I was curious about the route so I found it and it is about 10 adult paces along

[eco79]

Thanks Scruffy Mummy, I did not know that. It did always baffle me.

[LondonMix]

Tell me about it :)

eco79 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think we're done :) I can't stand it when all my

> spare time gets sucked in to trying to argue a

> point on the forum! Good chat though.

[BellendenBear]

Does anyone have any experience of sending their children to the Harris Primary schools? We went to an open evening at the Peckham Free school last winter. It was a really depressing and uninspiring evening. 2 teachers from the Peckham Park Primary spoke to us along with the Pricipal of the Peckham Academy. Their expectations were dismally low with a promise that by the end of year 6 the pupils would be approaching national average. Their expectations of what children would be doing in reception seemed to be at a similar level to what my daughter and her friends were already doing at nursery aged 2.5 - 3. They seemed to have thought about how children from disadvantaged backgrounds could benefit from their system (very admirable) but didn't seem to have considered where children not from deprived socioeconomic groups fitted in.

I was really disappointed as I had been quite excited when I had heard that there would be a new school in this area. If anyone has children at either of the Harris Primaries in Peckham I would really like to hear from you. As things stand, the Free school is our second closest school, but it won't be one of our 6 choices.

[Fuschia]

Analysis here of 2011 results by chain

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2012/02/academy-chains-no-case-for-expansion/

At 1000, Harris isn't contributing any additional value added

Measures above 1000 represent schools where pupils on average made more progress than similar pupils nationally, while measures below 1000 represent schools where pupils made less progress

[Fuschia]

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2012/02/most-outstanding-schools-are-not-academies/

Interesting info here

[Fuschia]

Study showing that academy intakes improve upon conversion, explaining improvement in results

http://cee.lse.ac.uk/ceedps/ceedp123.pdf

[eco79]

For those of you reading these pages posted by Fuschia, 'equivalent GCSEs' are where schools choose to study BTECs and the like. A pass grade at BTEC science, which I can only equate to a colouring in course, previously equated to 4 C grades at GCSE. It is a coursework only course where, for example, an assignment could consist of labelling a diagram of a building with the materials used [plastic, concrete, glass, wood] and would gain a pass.

[verds]

As a parent whose children won't stand a chance of getting into our nearest school even though it's only 300 metres away, of course I support the idea of more school places.

But, for various reasons, I don't support another Harris academy, and I think the way it's being presented as the only choice is a very bad way to handle this.

When I explained that I wouldn't support Harris to James Barber, he emailed me back to say: "if we could get enough support for a Harris school it would dramatically reduce pressure on the other East Dulwich schools."

Hardly fair, really.

And I'd like to know more about what will be done about the usual scrum for reception places in Sept 2013.

[Fuschia]

It's the policy which has limited the role of local authorities in strategic planning which has left us with no coed secondary option in ED and a lack of joined up admission policies which means many, if not most of us, risk falling into a black hole or ending up going out of Borough. As it seems to be Harris policy that attendance at a Harris primary gives priority for Harris secondaries, we might yet see Harris boys and girls effectively barred for many ED children.

[LondonMix]

Fuschia, I agree with you in general about Academies. But for those who don't have time to read the full link, it would be worth presenting a more balanced summary of what the article concludes. I quote from Fuschia's link:

" A similar picture emerges if we look at % of students making expected progress in English and Maths. In both categories the ARK and Harris chains are above the national average but the other five chains are below it. And overall the chains are again below the national average."

A lot of Harris's value add is a maths rather than English. Fuschia's claim that Harris have no value add is patently untrue even according to her own link. Again, this is not a defence of Academies in general but I don't like this type of manipulation of the truth.

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Analysis here of 2011 results by chain

>

> http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2012/02/acad

> emy-chains-no-case-for-expansion/

>

> At 1000, Harris isn't contributing any additional

> value added

>

>

> Measures above 1000 represent schools where pupils

> on average made more progress than similar pupils

> nationally, while measures below 1000 represent

> schools where pupils made less progress

[brendapermaul]

Harris has a track record of getting on badly with local authorities and local authority schools. They do not co-operate with them and can be aggressive towards them.

Other local authorities have managed and expanding primary population by increasing the size of their existing schools. I cannot see where there is space to build a local school in this area.

Those of us who campaigned against the Harris secondary a few years ago predicted it would not be a local school - and indeed it is not. What we have is an intrusive eyesore, not a school that local people send their children too.

Far better to work with schools that are already here and want to meet the needs of the local population.

[brendapermaul]

Don't sign. Harris undermine local schools.

This is just s cheap stunt to get votes>

Where is the 'underused site' they think they are going to build it on ? I can't see any. Do they think they are going to close the East Dulwich Community Centre.

Expand your local school - it will be much better in the long term.

If Harris Schools are so great why aren't more local people,using their secondary schools in the area ?

[brendapermaul]

And to undermine other local schools in the process. Long term problems need proper answers - not short term fixes that will cause problems in the longer term.

[LondonMix]

Cooperation with the LA is important. Renata, is the reason you favour expanding Dulwich Hamlet (if that's true) despite it being an academy as well due to the fact you have found them easy to work with? How many extra places could be created via the expansion of Dulwich Hamlet and how would this be achieved? Would we still need to rely on bulges?