New East Dulwich Primary School 161/80 + 102

[prickle]

Apparently Dulwich Hamlet school and Dulwich Infants has been asked to look into permanent extended provision.

[LondonMix]

Renata, are you saying based on current legislation the only ways to increase primary school provision is to create a free school (and that there are multiple sponsors interested), expand the facilities of the existing primary schools or continue with bulges?

You all have informed us about the interest from the parents looking to set up the German / English school. Are there others?

Pickle, why do you believe Harris will automatically be awarded a construction contract to build the school(s) with government money if they are succesful in their application to the Secretary of State to open the school? That would be worrying. Have I misunderstood what you meant?

[LondonMix]

Isn't Dulwich Hamlet an Academy already? So they are working with the LA to meet additional primary school needs in the area? Interesting.

[simonethebeaver]

I am simply astonished that we are in a situation where school provision is determined by people emailing to say 'I'd like my child to have a school place, please'. Is no one at all in a position of authority in charge of planning? Why have the very clear demographics been ignored to this extent? How can we be in a position where it is actually impossible for a local authority to provide education on the basis of need?

As others have said, I don't know enough about Harris to have a view on it, but I am suspicious of any system in which public money is put into private hands without a thorough, transparent tendering process.

Does any other country have this situation? Education should be an obligation on Government. We pay for schools through taxation but we can't have enough schools unless we email someone?

I'm also not interested in talk about the last administration. I understand the legislative issues are not new to the Coalition. But why is the Free School policy, which funds schools that are often by nature non-inclusive, unrepresentative and selective, being pursued, to the detriment of adequate provision for our children?

[LondonMix]

Yes, the current free school system in the UK is based on the Swedish and American model. Others have them too. They have been more successful in some places than others.

[simonethebeaver]

I know nothing of Sweden but in the USA free schools are not the ONLY way to set up a new school. Surely they should be merely optional here too? A specialist complement to state provision?

[James Barber]

Hi simonethe beaver,

The Harris Federation is a charity.

They have associated companies to aggregate schools spends to negotiate umbrella contracts. Pretty normal best procurement practice.

This inability of local councils to provide new school started under the last bill Tony Blair passed in government. If they build a school they have to offer it up for others to run. Nationally Labour and Convservative parties when in government have not trusted councils to build and run schools. Truly daft. But I can't change this. I can only work within these daft national rules. So if we have to have free schools to fulfil the requirement for new schools and more places - and expanding schools the council is proposing to ask the national government for ?40-50m and some would then go above the ideal 2 or 3 form entries - Harris Federation has the best track record.

The emailing. To prove demand for a new free school the agency the Dept of Education use need to know the name of parents, DOB of children and the postcode of where they live and ideally an email or postal address. They want to see adequate demand to ensure public demand wont be wasted. The threshold ofr a 3 form entry (90pupils per year) is 40 1 year olds and 40 2 year olds. The quickest way of collecting evidence of such support is by email. Hence the emails. Equally it could be a petitions, letters, etc.

I can see a lot wrong with the system but I can try and work the system to help East Dulwich or stand on the sidelines playing politics saying how rubbish the system is.

[LondonMix]

Yes, I agree. The free school movement in both countries is more about offering parent?s choice-- ie if they don't like their local school, they can set up their own school and creating a space for alternative schools to innovate outside the national curriculum etc. That's a real simplification as that's not always the case but I think you get what I mean. It?s not meant to be the only type of school being created.

simonethebeaver Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know nothing of Sweden but in the USA free

> schools are not the ONLY way to set up a new

> school. Surely they should be merely optional here

> too? A specialist complement to state provision?

[simonethebeaver]

What if though I don't WANT my daughter (who as current catchments stand will not get into any primary school) to go to a free school? What if I would like her to go to one of the existing very good schools a short walk from my house rather than a new one on the other side of East Dulwich? What are my options? It seems all I can do is lie. I am interested in the idea of permanently expanding our current schools-who do I tell?

And as I said, I am fully aware of the history here. I'm not trying to make party political points. I'm just deeply frustrated.

[LondonMix]

I have openly said I have reservations about the current system. However, I think the idea is that if 80 of the new primary school children do want a free school (as evidenced by a petition / email etc), they will apply for it once it is created and will go there. This will create more room in the LA schools that are currently oversubscribed so hopefully everyone will be getting what they want (hah!)

I like the idea of parental choice but I think the way this is being implemented leaves a lot to be desired and I would like more details regarding the charity that will be running the school being awarded building contracts (if that's the case) that they can presumably make a profit on. If that's true, it shouldn't be allowed unless they are funding the build themselves.

Edited to add: I'd like to see some proof on this though as it's quite a serious thing to allege. I've emailed Harris to find out.

[simonethebeaver]

Sorry, Londonmix. My response was to James. Yours appeared while I was typing.

I would also like to know exactly how Harris' procurement works. Is it bound by public sector accountability?

[Fuschia]

'?

Is Harris Federation a charity or a business?

The annual report for 2010 shows that the Harris Federation has a turnover of ?130 million. It employs 1,157 people.

Whilst for legal, and perhaps moral reasons it presents as a charity (it was made an exempt charity in August 2011 so it no longer has to publish accounts with the charity Commission) its operations make it appear much more like a business.

It runs two separate but connected business arms

Harris Academies Project Management Limited ?The company is used for construction work on a number of Harris Federation academy buildings.?? Made ?337,000 profit.

HCTC Enterprises limited ?The company is used to carry on business as a general commercial company?. It operates the Lewis Sports and Leisure Centre and made ?23,000 profit.'

From One of the links I posted

[Fuschia]

http://www.echarris.com/pdf/8286_Case%20Study_West%20London%20Free%20School_Final.pdf

[eco79]

Just to change track a little, the school where I taught in Islington, became an Academy maybe 3/4 years ago now. We were a fully comprehensive school allowing children in based purely on their distance from the school.

When the sponsors took over, and we became an Academy, our intake was based on quartiles. To put it simply, the intake of the school in Y7 would look like this....

25% capable of achieving A*/As at GCSE

25% capable of getting B/Cs at GCSE

25% capable of getting D/Es at GCSE

25% capable of getting below E grade.

Now that would appear fair, but actually what happened is if the school filled up the lowest quartile, it didn't matter how close you were to the school, you couldn't come. And when they didn't fill the top quartile, they opened the catchment area to the whole of London. They therefore fiddled with the improvement of their results right from the start, by improving their intake and neglecting local students.

So, having a look at a Harris School admissions policy, they also 'admit students representing all levels of ability among applicants for admission'. So I imagine a similar thing is happening. I know this doesn't necessary impact on a Primary School as this is Secondary policy, but it is obviously easier for schools to improve results if they improve the intake of the students, this leads to better results at OFSTED and everyone looks amazing.

I left that Academy in Islington swiftly, and work for a school that gives places to students of all abilities, even if one year we end up with no students in the top 25%.

Am I making sense?

[Fuschia]

That's exactly it ... 'fair banding'

If a school is oversubscribed and other schools are not operating the same policy, a school can improve its intake in this way.

After all, if children were fairly distributed across all schools, the governments targets would be met. It's just at the moment schools don't all get a balanced intake.

[eco79]

I'm also concerned that a very emotive issue, one of school places for our children has requested support without being hugely clear what type of school we're all voting for.

The title of this thread should say 'New Harris Academy primary for SE22'. Everybody wants a new ED primary....not everybody wants another Harris School.

[James Barber]

But how does secondary admissions affect whether we want to ensure we have enough local primary schools and admissions for reception?

[kittysailing]

Having been a lone 'bright kid' ( only one in year to go to Uni) in a rough comp in the North I would say manipulating the intake by fair banding seems like a good thing. Having an academic mix in the school and providing each child with academic 'peers' is surely better for individual children. Or am I missing the point?

[eco79]

It's not whether we have a new primary or not James. We obviously need one.

It's your repeated comments about how amazing Harris are. I'm trying to open up for people, exactly why academies with a selective admissions policy [otherwise known as fair banding] can turn around their results so swiftly, show massive improvement to OFSTED and gain their outstanding award. They've acquired their 'good name' at Secondary and now using it to expand into the Primary sector. I don't feel comfortable with it.

We will therefore never really know if Harris are any good, because they've never been playing the game on the same level playing field as a true comprehensive.

[eco79]

Kitty, the problem happens when one of your quartiles is over subscribed.

Say you've got 100 kids trying to get a place at the school. Under previous systems if they all lived close by, they'd get in, end of story. But now, 29 of those kids are in the lowest quartile say. There's only space for 25 of them on the school rules. So 4 kids can't go. They might have named that school as a first choice causing problems in choosing another school, and that other school won't be their closest. Tricky times when you're 11.

But the big issue is, when an Academy starts, they are always seen to take over a failing school and improve it. Everyone thinks....WOW, they must have such good facilities, a beautiful building, better teachers, brighter management - when actually all they did was ensure their intake was cleverer than last years by their tricky and not well publicised admissions policy.

[Fuschia]

kittysailing Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Having been a lone 'bright kid' ( only one in year

> to go to Uni) in a rough comp in the North I would

> say manipulating the intake by fair banding seems

> like a good thing. Having an academic mix in the

> school and providing each child with academic

> 'peers' is surely better for individual children.

> Or am I missing the point?

It's a very good idea. I believe it was how Ilea used to operate for all schools.

However in the current context, it's used pretty much exclusively by a acAdemies who can the report rapidly improving results, while the remaining schools often see their levels of prior attainment on entry fall

[simonethebeaver]

I may be wrong but I think all Lewisham secondaries band. They test the kids in yr5 in Lewisham primaries with the same test. If you look at the Lewisham secondary application booklet, it gives the distances and application numbers for each band. I don't know if Southwark publishes those figures?

[LondonMix]

EC Harris is not the Harris Foundation! What are you doing? I work with EC Harris and its not even remotely related. Please check your facts and be carfeful before posting...

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://www.echarris.com/pdf/8286_Case%20Study_West

> %20London%20Free%20School_Final.pdf

[Fuschia]

Sorry that was completely the wrong link, lol ... Was supposed to be a different one, blame my iPhone, hang on

[LondonMix]

Harris has not just been assessed on their aggregate results but on individual pupil progress. Individual pupils have progressed well above what is expected of them based on their capabilities on entering the Harris school. This cannot be manipulated by fair banding. Why people refuse to acknowledge this is odd...

eco79 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's not whether we have a new primary or not

> James. We obviously need one.

>

> It's your repeated comments about how amazing

> Harris are. I'm trying to open up for people,

> exactly why academies with a selective admissions

> policy can turn around their results so swiftly,

> show massive improvement to OFSTED and gain their

> outstanding award. They've acquired their 'good

> name' at Secondary and now using it to expand into

> the Primary sector. I don't feel comfortable with

> it.

>

> We will therefore never really know if Harris are

> any good, because they've never been playing the

> game on the same level playing field as a true

> comprehensive.