New East Dulwich Primary School 161/80 + 102

[James Barber]

I've found this debate interesting. But we did do our homework before approaching Harris Federation and asking them to create one possibly two new local schools in our area.

We havent taken this step lightly. If anything I wish we'd finished our due diligence quicker.

After 24 hours we have 22 children's parents approaching us to offer support. We need another 58 for one school or 138 for two.

If you know anyone with 1 or 2 year old children please ask them to email me their names, children DOB and their home postcode.

[Fuschia]

James, how much money has the govt wasted on doing the ground work on setting up free schools, where initial expressions of interest didn't turn into actual bums on seats? Very large sums is the answer. Also as distance is usually the main factor for school admissions, and for primary in particular, many of these 'expressions of interest' will be for children who have no hope of getting a place at a school on the old hospital site.

No one could say that Gove's expensive and wasteful free school dogma is a rational way to plan the future provision of education in the area!

Or that the whole initiative isn't diverting vital funds away from existing schools.

[James Barber]

Hi Fuschia,

Under the last Labour government new schools could only be created after a very long process typically taking 5-7 years. They didnt have a new name of free schools but all in name that's what they were.

The coalition government is pushing harder on these while shortening the process to 12-24months from application to first pupils.

Our area needs another 2-3 schools by September 2015. If you have a practical alternative to what I've proposed then I'd be delighted ot hear.

But please don't continue the political posturing that if you were successful we wouldnt see new schools being built which would harm many many local children's whole lives.

[intexasatthe moment]

Well put Fuschia and thank you for taking the time posting and providing figures behind the spin .

I find the profilation of original Academies ,new Academies ,Free Schools confusing and I completely understand thats many are so busy getting through life that their main concern is a place for their primary school child .

I think the current set up is wrong - I don't want a fragmented education system in the hands of a number of individuals with much power ,many freedoms ,little control ,opaque motivations and varying degrees of success.

And who I've not voted for .

And the fact that I don't know what the answer is and can't come up with alternatives ,doesn't mean that what we have now in Southwark is ok .

[intexasatthe moment]

James - why can't the LA sponsor/set up a new primary school ?

[Jessie]

And as per the thread on the general section, all this leads inevitably to the question as to what provision is being made for secondary places

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

Niether last Labour govt or the current trust local authorities. This is clearly daft but I can't change that but will be trying. Clearly it would make sense for Local Authorities above some threshold of performance results to be allowed to apply for funding of new schools. I don't get why national Labour or Conservative politicians dont want this. But we work with what we have to ensure local children don't suffer as a consequence. Fuschia called me naive. I'd suggest pragmatic.

Hi Jessie,

Yes, but for the next month we need to find at least 80 and hopefully 160 to justify one but hopefully two new local primary schools. THEN I can turn to secondary schools and do all the due diligence. If we reach 160 sooner I'll get onto secondaryt schools sooner (I have a day job and a family).

[Jessie]

Yes of course you do, and hopefully your children will be schooled somewhere suitable. If you could instead then pass on a name whose full time job it is to make sure our children have a good, appropriate and local secondary school place when they reach 11 I would be immensely grateful.

[intexasatthe moment]

James - can't the LA sponsor a school ?

[prickle]

What Fuschia said.

Also agree with intexas that we don't want a fragmented education system. All southwark secondary schools are academies now, each with their own admissions system. Many of them use fair banding including Harris. Each school uses a different banding assessment test so the year 6 pupils have to sit many tests at this time of the year. It is disruptive and not fair to the children who may have to sit up to 6 different tests depending on which schools they are applying for. This is an example of the lack of central coordination that a fragmented system brings. The people who pay for it are the children and the parents. Why isn't there one fair banding test that all schools use? Not possible as all the secondaries are academies and are independent from each other.

Also the reason we are in this predicament is that at last the politicians have woken up to the fact that we are going through a baby boom. James, you say that it takes 5 to 7 years to set up a school. Well, stats should have been available 4-5 years ago on the numbers of children starting reception this year. It is not rocket science. If the birth rate goes up, then all these children will need educating. The reason we are in this predicament now is that the powers that be (and which party was in power in Southwark 5 years ago?) did not have the strategic nouse to think ahead. Please do not dress up your Harris initiative as something wonderful. It is yet another short term solution for a long term problem.

Please think ahead. These children will be starting secondary in 6 years time. Get the secondary school places sorted now.

[prickle]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> James - can't the LA sponsor a school ?

Any why Harris? Has there been a tender system where different service providers have tendered for this job? Was Harris chosen because of its links with the coalition?

[LondonMix]

Fuschia has revealed the figures behind the spin!?! Sorry, but the links she has posted are largely spin themselves. A link claiming that it?s shocking that 29 members of staff across 19 schools earn more than 60k when its well-known that the LA pays Head Teachers in inner-city schools up to 150k is pure spin!

Fuschia also claimed that Daniel Moynihan makes 300k which is untrue. His pay (according to her own link) including his pension was 243k and a performance related bonus. The LA example (which may or may not be a comparable job) earns 150k excluding pension. If you add on the equivalent civil service pension to the LA salary, the comparable annual pay would be 195k vs a base pay of 243k for Moynihan. Also, according to her own links, Moynihan is paid LESS than other people in similar positions at other academies.

This of course is irrelevant. We know that academies receive the exact same operating funding as LA schools (again confirmed by her own links). We know Harris pay their teachers more than the LA and pay their management well. So either Harris has found a way to pay more and achieve better results with the same money or the charity itself is paying the additional salary costs. How is either of those possibilities a scandal?

Harris?s results stand up to scrutiny and claims that an exclusion rate of less than 1% is responsible for their performance defy all common sense. The attainment and progress of individual pupils is clear.

All academies are not created equal. Some could very well be worse than the LA at providing a quality education and they are not a panacea. Even when you have a great academy, ideological concerns remain about the fragmentation of education provision and the role of the private / charity sector in something as important as education.

However, I find it offensive that in furtherance of an ideological argument against academies in general, some feel it?s appropriate to tarnish the reputation of a very successful educational charity in the process. I think that?s deeply irresponsible particularly when done with inaccurate statements and unsubstantiated claims.

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well put Fuschia and thank you for taking the time

> posting and providing figures behind the spin .

>

> I find the profilation of original Academies ,new

> Academies ,Free Schools confusing and I completely

> understand thats many are so busy getting through

> life that their main concern is a place for their

> primary school child .

>

>

> I think the current set up is wrong - I don't want

> a fragmented education system in the hands of a

> number of individuals with much power ,many

> freedoms ,little control ,opaque motivations and

> varying degrees of success.

> And who I've not voted for .

>

> And the fact that I don't know what the answer is

> and can't come up with alternatives ,doesn't mean

> that what we have now in Southwark is ok .

[Fuschia]

Actually you are wrong on a number of points there - google lacseg for instance

Unfortunately I haven't got time to unpick it right this minute, syopised to be working on my day job (which us school funding and leadership!) I don't have a particular axe to grind against Harris. They don't do a bad job. But they don't work miracles either.

To return briefly to free schools though.

How can it be right that to initiate a new school, parents are exhorted to express an interest via

The Internet? Why is this no longer a matter of strategic planning for local government? That's why I think it is political dogma gone mad, and is what has left us with no cooed secondary places accessible to ED.

[James Barber]

Hi prickle,

Why Harris?

Because they have an amazing track record of producing outstanding local schools in Southwark.

Please be clear Lord Harris is a Conservative. But his and my politics and other peoples politicis should not get in the way of ensuring we have sufficient schools offering a great education. For msny decades Southwark's schools were run on political dogma. This was from a past governor and former Cllr Danny McCarthy who gave me an accont of how schools were run then and he wasnt proud how they were loaded with party hacks whose best interests were not the children's education.

Schools were so bad in Southwark that a Labour Government took control of education away from a Labour Southwark Council. But that's history.

We have a real chance to ensure we have sufficient local schools IF we get enough local support by 4 January. Bickering about national plicies that wont change this side of 2015 general election isnt productive unless people's motives are not to ensure we have sufficient local schools.

[LondonMix]

I've googled it and found nothing to suggest academies do or will recieve more funding than LA schools. That's a strong claim to make with serious implications for assessing how academies are performing and managing their finances. You need to back it up.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/academies/primary/steps/b00204848/academy-funding/lacseg-2013-14

I am going off-line as I also have work to do as well.

[prickle]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi prickle,

> Why Harris?

> Because they have an amazing track record of

> producing outstanding local schools in Southwark.

>

So have they undergone a tendering process with the local authority? How does the procurement process work for establishing a new school? Shouldn't we be looking at a variety of option before deciding on the final provider?

No matter how wonderful they are, I am uncomfortable that Harris will run so many schools in the local community.

And will pupils from Harris primary schools take priority when applying to Harris secondaries?

[midivydale]

I would argue that the provision of good schools for my son and all the other local children are the number one priority. As we all know, provisions are not adequate as things stand.

Would be interested to hear what Renata H thinks as Nunhead rep?

Any thoughs Renata?

[LondonMix]

Prickle, you might want to check the other threads on this in the main section of the EDF. Any potential school can try to open up in the area / on the hospital site. Any group of parents / federation, if they can secure enough registered interest from the community to fill the school can move forward.

There is a separate group of parents who are also interested in the hospital site that are thinking of opening a bilingual German / English school. The various cllrs have informed the EDF of this, provided links etc and generally been supportive. However, this school is considering a number of potential sites elsewhere in London whereas Harris would be committed to the hospital site.

There is no tendering process. Once there is enough registered interest in what a group is offering, they can apply to the Secretary of State to open the school. At this point, the proposal is scrutinized based on a number of criteria and they can go about trying to secure a proposed site. See link below:

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-free-school

[James Barber]

Hi midivydale,

I emailed all the college, Nunhead, Peckham Rye and Village ward councillors asking them to help make this a cross party cmapaign with the East Dulwich ward councillors. So far no response. They may need permission from their party leaders. We're fortunate our leader devolves most decision making.

Changing the title of the thread to show progress is partly a prod to these other councillors to join.

[prickle]

Thanks but I have already read the other thread.

TBH the whole free school system stinks but I think it makes me even more uncomfortable when I know that the person leading the organisation (ie Lord Harris) is a significant figure in the coalition (yes I know he is a Tory and not a LibDem but is a member of the coalition all the same) and a coalition councillor is proposing to offer the organisation a multi-million pound contract to build 2 schools without any tendering. I am not saying there is anything dodgy involved but it does give plenty of room for doubt.

I feel uncomfortable that this is being offered up as a great solution to the dire lack of primary places in the area without any consultation. Presumably the expectation is that the grateful local parents will accept this with few questions asked and who can blame them? What happened to accountability and democracy or am I missing something?

For the record I think the English-German free school is another vanity project. They can't decide whether to locate in ED or Rotherhithe - how can that be a solution to the shortage of school places in this area?

There is absolutely NO strategic thinking behind all this! (and yes I am cross!)

[James Barber]

hi prickle,

I'm not a coalition councillor.

I'm a Liberal Democrat councillor for East Dulwich.

The coalition is a national coalition of government. It does not cover local stuff and why would it. So the coalition does stuff I agree with and vice versa. But foremost in my mind is how to make East Dulwich better.

The Labour led council is also offering a view. Lots more bulge classes. Their view relies on obtaining ?40-50m of capital from central government. An unprecented amount. So in my view it appears to be political posturing knowing such an application will fail. They'll be told to find people to open free schools - and we'll have wasted a year until the next round so will not have school is place.

[Audrey]

I'm in Camberwell, so this is not directly applicable to me. I've been watching this with interest, and I've been pm'ed - probably because I have a "1-2 yr old". I was going to reply directly to the pm, but decided to make my views public.

I'm open minded about free schools and academies in principle, (in truth I haven't done enough research to form a well balanced and defendable opinion) but I do have concerns about something as important as education being handed over to the private sector, and especially in the concentrations seen locally. I believe that there should be a wider 'tender' process, rather than what looks like 1 preferred provider. I think its headed toward a car crash unless their operation is rigorously monitored, and I'm not sure I trust that the resource and capability to do this is in place. What happens if the LA comes down heavy on something like school meals - do Harris threaten to pull out? 1,000's of kids out of school? How can this be a healthy situation? (And don't think some scenario like this could never happen. After all, the banks would never run out of money and need a bailout, would they? Really?)

I also don't like your "there is a shortage of school places, so support this" mentality. I think education is far too important for panicked knee jerked decisions. I think the local authority should be providing OFSTED outstanding schools, they should be firing underperforming teachers, and adequately remunerating staff at performing schools. Yes its an ideal, but its also fundamental. Why isn't it happening?

Everyone's bored of the old 'previous administration' line being trotted out so don't bother with that one. What is in your power now is to start planning to avoid a secondary school place calamity. If you don't want the job, stand down and let someone else take the mantle. Let it be your legacy, so in 10 years time we are not hearing "well theres no secondary school places because the previous administration didn't do anything to provide for the record number of children projected to leave primary schools.... they must have seen it coming...."

[prickle]

Sorry James, I take your point - no Coalition in local politics. The rest of my concerns remain though.

[Renata Hamvas]

I am a little concerned about this. No mention has been made about a potential site for this school. Possibly the plan is too put a Harris Free School on one of the existing Harris sites eg Harris Girl's. this is what has happened with the Academy @ Peckham site.

I know that the Dulwich Hospital site has crept into the equation a few times when schools for the area have been discussed on this forum. As I have said elsewhere on here, the land does not belong to the council. While the future of health service provision in South London is up in the air as it is a the moment, so too is the future of Dulwich Hospital and it's grounds. I do want good schools that parents want to send their children too. The council is currently working with several school providers in the Borough as all secondaries are ouside Council control as are a few of the primaries. A most of you are aware, Harris is not the only possibility for a new primary in the area. The current legislation does not enable LAs to set up new schools from scratch even where there is need. I am also treading with caution as I have concerns about the potential financial implications on other schools in the area. There is a strategy for dealing with the current issues with primary school places tht have been devised by the Council, but it has been called in for scrutiny by the LIbDem Chair. This will just delay things. In terms of secondary (which has been raised by a couple of posters), I am aware that Council Officers are planning for the increase in Secondary pupils envisaged to occur from 2016 onwards.

[James Barber]

Hi Renata,

As you know the scrutiny call-in will delay things by a week or two at most unless the original decision was faulty.