New East Dulwich Primary School 161/80 + 102

[intexasatthe moment]

Yes ,great .

Harris primaries or nothing .

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

No, we could wait for a more unusual provider - perhaps faith. Or we could wait until we have no spaces even with bulging new classes.

Hi Fuschia,

That anti website - well did it need to warp the facts or present them so blatantly. I'm not surprised that schools have people paid more than ?60,000pa. Or that Harris has more over time as it grows.

[Fuschia]

James, you are very naive, for a politician!

[intexasatthe moment]

Yes James .

Now lets see , who else would be an unsusual provider apart from faith ?

I've got it ! Local authority .

[LondonMix]

I've read the anti-academies link and despite its best efforts I don't see a strong case. What failing school would not resist being shut down? Especially as Harris has a reputation for firing failing teachers and hiring new staff as part of the process of creating cultural change. The results even when adjusted for GCSE equivalents are still impressive and the exclusion rate is low. Head teachers in inner city London make up to 150k per annum so the fact that 29 people on staff across 19 schools make 60k+ is really not unusual. The academy pays the person who manages all 19 of the schools less than other administrators of academies and pays teachers more than the LA. It has (at least in the past) invested millions into the creation of the schools in the federation.

I think this is a very serious matter so besides a philosophical argument against academies in general, what do you really believe Harris is doing wrong, morally or educationally?

[Fuschia]

http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/3-academy-school-chains-hand-164-staff.html?m=1

If the director of an la responsible for 300-400 schools and social services for children earns around ?150k, what justifies Daniel Moynihan earning so much more, for fewer than 20 schools?

[prickle]

Interesting article Fuschia. Whether you believe everything or not it certainly gives food for thought. For instance I always thought Lord Harris was a Labour peer. Silly me, probably because he's from Peckham and not the Home Counties or something. Sounds like Harris's rapid expansion of late were rather helped by his Tory party political connections...

James are you sure that your keeness for Harris is not anything to do with the Coalition politics? Is Harris the prefered educational provider of choice for Gove?

[Fuschia]

Lm, their improved results are to a large extent achieved by virtue of the fair banding admissions, increased exclusions and gcse equivalents.

But my main objection is one of principle. I object to schools Nd their sites being given away without democratic choice by local people, to line the pickets of cronies of the Tories. It's an incestuous map of back slapping

[LondonMix]

But do you think the director of the LA should earn more? Do you think a higher salary would attract better talent and improve results in line with Harris? What is your view on standard pay for teachers? Should this be lower or higher and why? All serious questions...

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/3-academ

> y-school-chains-hand-164-staff.html?m=1

>

> If the director of an la responsible for 300-400

> schools and social services for children earns

> around ?150k, what justifies Daniel Moynihan

> earning so much more, for fewer than 20 schools?

[Fuschia]

Jobs for the boys:

http://m.flickr.com/lightbox?id=8221881250

[LondonMix]

You think the banding results in a higher achieving intake? Don't all pupils outperform / achieve potential according to OFSTED-- see extract for ED Girls? The exclusion rate is less than 1%. You believe that has a massive impact on performance, really?

Students enter the academy with well-below-average attainment and, for many, particularly weak literacy skills. Almost all students, including those who are disabled and those with special educational needs, make rapid and sustained progress in most subjects so that, by the end of Key stage 4, attainment is significantly above average. The gap has been successfully narrowed for disadvantaged students, whose attainment and progress are now significantly above their peers nationally.

[Fuschia]

The academy sponsors in some cases contributed no capital to the schools

I don't believe the incredible salaries for the bosses are reasonable or justified

Many community schools pay similar sakarues to their actual teachers, without amending teachers conditions of service and working hours

It's privatisation, political dogma, concealed behind the rhetoric of school improvement and an attack on the state education system as great as the attack on the health service

[Fuschia]

Lm, await the information when

Published for 2012 results and showing the effects of reducing the equivalent courses

I am

Not saying The academies are rubbish, but they are not a magic wand, despite the huge cost of them (money diverted away from las and la schools)

[LondonMix]

You have an ideological view on the matter, which is fine.

I have ideological concerns about academies as well but I wanted to know if there was some wrong doing on the part of Harris as part of thinking through these changes. This specific group seem to be doing a phenomenal job, particularly for disadvantaged children and while others haven't they have (at least historically) invested many millions into their schools. I have several teachers in my family here (husband's side). It difficult but as far as academies go, I think I can support this one.

[LondonMix]

One of the links you posted already had the results adjusted out for equivalents and I still found them impressive to be honest.

[Fuschia]

Some stuff here about how fair banding will push up results

http://www.lynnejones.org.uk/lynne-jones-mp/dcsf%20letters.htm

[LondonMix]

Fair banding vs. distance admission can clearly either increase the capability or reduce the capability of a school's intake depending on the school's immediate surrounding neighbourhood's socio-economic make-up.

Harris' performance, when assessed by individual pupil performance and how much each individual pupil improves, shows that the school is enhancing performance above national standards expected based on each student's starting point. Banding cannot explain why individual deprived children are making such significant progress compared to their national counterparts. The school is clearly having a positive impact on learning and results and the intake is still very deprived. Banding in East Dulwich would be expected to reduce the average capability of the intake as bands would extend to more socio-economically deprived areas.

[Fuschia]

But there are many schools also doing that. And this year a never of Harrus academies saw their overall % drop.

I think they are not bad schools, if you accept the ethos, but should they should be for the money they have cost!

What they are not is some panacea 'turn a school into an academy and results will go up'

It's not proven, despite the press onslaught in favour of academies and the toadying of Gove's cronies at OFSTED

[LondonMix]

Academies are most similar to Charter schools in the US. In some circumstances (NY) they have dramatically improved outcomes. In other states, they haven't at all and at times performed worse! The devil is clearly in the details and choosing the right academy is key to it being a benefit to the local area.

The Harris academies seem to have found a formula that works very well. No one argues that an LA school could never replicate their results but so far, they haven't locally as far as I am aware (happy to be corrected based on individual pupil progress stats).

Do you have specific figures on how much the Harris Academies cost the tax payer to run as I think that would be interesting. Based on the information I have found, the funding for academies and maintained LA schools is like for like: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/academies/primary/faqs/a00204912/finance-faqs#faq2 (extract below)

Will schools be worse off financially if they convert to academies?

The general principle is that schools are no worse off as academies than they would have been as maintained schools. Academies are funded on a like-for-like basis with local authority maintained schools, with the addition of funding for services that the authority provides free of charge to its schools.

If academies are more expensive to run, is it the charity that is footing the bill?

[Fuschia]

I was taking into account the building costs. The slice of funding allocated to the academies to compensate for loss of services in general is higher than comparable funding for the schools remaining with the LA. I do have some links but not sure I will have time to dig them out just now.

[Fuschia]

Something from NAO

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2012/11/academies-programme-cost-1-billion-more-than-anticipated-says-nao/

[Fuschia]

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/10/academy-conversions-have-cost-millions-?-and-cost-is-likely-to-escalate/

[LondonMix]

Okay, but building a school is always building a school if one is needed surely. The conversion grant is a 25k one off per school and anything above that the school (not the tax payer) has to pay for. The links you posted suggest that the funding to replace LA services was breakeven. The articles highlight academies' financial vulnerability rather than suggest they are rolling in cash. I can't see how any of this explains Harris's results.

Going to bed myself now.

Goodnight,

LM

[Fuschia]

Plus conversion costs where existing schools are taken on by a chain... Think that's ?65k minimum now?

[LondonMix]

I don't know, I haven't heard that. Are you saying the 25k or potential 65k conversion grant per school is why the academies are performing so well? In an area the size of ED that is about 6 GBP per person as a one off cost. If it results in a better performing school are you saying that's a waste of money?

Really going to bed now- I am risking divorce and loss of employment if I don't ease up on my forum addiction!

Edited to add: Harris increases the performance of already capable students as well (it Crystal Palace academy illustrates that very well). I don't want to create the impression that Harris only does a good job for poor / failing students.