Religion

[Pickle]

Just looking for opinions really.

The situation - I am an atheist, and our children, while exposed very slightly to religion at school (not a church school, so they learn a bit about all different faiths due to the different festivals etc) are being raised agnostic (is that the right term? I don't actively tell them not to believe, but don't purposely expose them to religious teachings). If, when they are old enough, they chose to embrace religion that's fine, but I don't want it pushed upon them.

My in-laws are currently staying (that's a whole other issue!), and MIL is very religious. She has spent all weekend so far reading the children quite hard-core bible stories, quoting the bible, and to top it off has at bedtime told my oldest son that if he doesn't believe in God "nice things won't happen".

I am struggling to bite my tongue. I really don't think it's appropriate? But no matter how I raise it I'm going to look bad. What would you do?

[susyp]

It depends how long they are there for and how often you see them. If it's a short time I would bite my tongue and then explain to your children that nanny thinks this but not everyone does. If its a long time I would have to explain to MiL that it's not how I want them brought up. At least get to say it's what she thinks but not lay down the law ie I don;t think I could not pick her up on what she told your oldest son! Nightmare though you have my sympathy!

susypx

[Pickle]

Aaah, the biting of the tongue was going so well until 15 mins ago when I completely lost it over a different matter. Those of you who have great relationships with your in-laws, cherish it.

[vesti]

.

[oimissus]

perhaps you could point out to her that as she is not your children's godparent it is not her role to instruct them? And it's certainly not for her to frighten them. Can your partner not get her to back off? After all, tis the season to be jolly! When does she falalalala lalalala off?

[Chillaxed]

I'd tell her to keep out of it as nicely as possible (and if that doesn't work, any way that's effective). My Mum is religious but she knows well enough not to try and indoctrinate my son; she's welcome to have a crack when he's old enough to make his own mind up, however.

Agree with above poster that your partner should be fronting the conversation.

[Pickle]

They fuuuuuu... lalalala off tomorrow. In the meantime MIL has gone to meet Mr Pickle for lunch, and on the suggestion that she pick my oldest boy up from school (middle child has ballet after school, so he usually has to sit outside with me) she rolls her eyes and said "I suppose I could rush back from my lunch". This is what I'm up against :-(

[Monkey]

Deep breath, deep breath.

I have the opposite issue with my mum appalled that Little Monkey is being taught about religion at school.(My mum is French and there's nothing said about religion in French schools.)

[hellosailor]

Pickle Wrote:

> and to top it off has at bedtime told my oldest

> son that if he doesn't believe in God "nice things

> won't happen".

>

> you're right to be thoroughly cheesed off, that's an utterly shameful thing to say to a child. I would ask Mr. Pickle to politely ask his mum not to talk like that to the children again. If she told them that if they were bad they would go to hell and started explaining that concept to them, I imagine you would feel justified in immediately asking her to be quiet, and what she said to your son is unpleasant and threatening, ugh, you have my sympathy!

[Saffron]

Pickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just looking for opinions really.

>

> The situation - I am an atheist, and our children,

> while exposed very slightly to religion at school

> (not a church school, so they learn a bit about

> all different faiths due to the different

> festivals etc) are being raised agnostic (is that

> the right term? I don't actively tell them not to

> believe, but don't purposely expose them to

> religious teachings). If, when they are old

> enough, they chose to embrace religion that's

> fine, but I don't want it pushed upon them.

>

I think that's just called being educated and open-minded! :)

> My in-laws are currently staying (that's a whole

> other issue!), and MIL is very religious. She has

> spent all weekend so far reading the children

> quite hard-core bible stories, quoting the bible,

> and to top it off has at bedtime told my oldest

> son that if he doesn't believe in God "nice things

> won't happen".

>

Yup, them's fightin' words where I come from... but seriously, my solution for scenarios like this has generally been to address the correction directly to my child, rather than to the adult. In this case, I'd say to my child something like,

"Well, that's not strictly true. Nice things happen to lots of people who don't believe in god or who believe in other gods. The main thing is that you do nice things to other people."

For this to work you have to have a very kind and authoritative tone of voice, think Reception class teacher voice, and smile a lot at the child and the other adult. Basically, your tone of voice needs to sound like you're mothering both your child and the other adult, firm but kind. Then QUICKLY change the subject!

You can talk to the other adult about it later if you need to do so, then they don't feel 'told off' in front of the child.

It's not religion that's the issue with my MIL, it's talk of smaking people and telling people to shut-up. My MIL is constant saying things like, "Do you want a smack?" And, "Oh shut-up." She doesn't say these in an unkindly way, and to be fair she's just as likely to offer a smack to my husband or the green grocer! And she never actually hits anyone. It's just really bad bahavioural modelling in my book.

[Saffron]

There's also the alternative approach, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

In this scenario, the response would be something like, "And if Grandmother doesn't but out, nice things won't happen to her either." This needs to be said with complete and utter authority, a smile on the lips and a very cold look in the eye, where the other adult can see but the child can't.

(And on that same tip, perhaps the next time my MIL starts offering everyone smacks, I shall offer to box her ears ;-) )

[Grumpy Hamster]

I would be upset with this approach and I am a card carrying/flag waving Christian.

Truth is good things happend to people who believe and people who don't. Bad things happen to people who believe and people who don't. I think that trying to promise good things to a child if they "believe" is a dangerous game - what if the day after they decide to "believe" something bad/terrible does happen?

Is it worth suggesting to you MIL that it is enough that she is involved in the lives of her grandchildren and they are aware of her beliefs. She will be there if they have any questions and perhaps some of the more widely celebrated festivals (Easter/Christmas) might be worthy of a visit to the local church with her at some point (but until they are old enough to decide this is obviously up to the parents).

As you say - once they are old enough they will decide for themselves.

Best of luck. I hope your MIL is able to moderate her approach.

[Smiler]

Urgh, I would be v mad with the comment about nice things.

Agree though that mr pickle should handle it!

[The ED Wilberforces]

I'm with Grumpy Hamster on this - what kind of crazy theology is that?

As it (almost) says in the Bible: The rain, it raineth on the just, and also on the unjust fella.

But mainly on the just - because the unjust steals the just's umbrella...

Have to say - if anyone had tried to tell me that sort of thing about God I probably wouldn't believe it either!

[Saila]

I had a pretty religious upbringing - i attended sunday school and pre school religious events, then went to a missionary boarding school for 11 years, which was pretty full on.

I've never once felt drawn to it. Both my parents are atheists. They only made us go to these things cos they were fun kids things to do in the area.

I listened to my parents and their beliefs, or at least their approach and attitude to major issues such as religion and it's never interested me.

I have a lovely MIL and feel very luck after reading this. Poor you.

[BB100]

Pickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

told my oldest

> son that if he doesn't believe in God "nice things

> won't happen".

>

What a terrible thing to say. As others have said I would play them at their own game and show your eldest in the bible where it says the 'sun shines on everyone good and bad' and so what she is saying is not what 'God' says about it anyway whether he is real or not. Children are very good at seeing through things like that but they are also entitled to hearing other people's opinions on such issues. Whatever you say will always hold more weight so make sure you just reinforce your ideas. If you try and shut up other ideas it may make your children more interested in them.

[Otta]

Just tell them granny is a nasty lier.

[WorkingMummy]

I definitely would not start quoting the bible at a prosletizing Christian seeking to indoctrinate your children, as if the reason your MIL's behaviour was inappropriate was BECAUSE the bible says different - that way madness lies.

If it happens again I would say to her, immediately, in front of the kids, with a big reassuring smile, "don't be silly" and then change the subject, ideally to remind the kids of something 'nice' about to happen to them. Then later, I would raise it with her privately and ask her not to do that again. But for goodness sake don't bring the bible into it. You can pick a line from the bible to support just about any point of view you want to take on just about any topic.

[Saffron]

I guess when you stop and think about it, it isn't totally about religion anyway. It's about someone interfering with your authority as matron/head of the house. The problem is how to divert your children away from the unsolicited advice, and reassert your authority. No easy solutions?

[hellosailor]

very true Saffron

[Lochie]

I also have had problems with my MIL and comments about religion, some of them have been really bad and irritated me to high heaven (should add I am agnostic too!). My son and daughter have never been christened despite various hints. My children are also too young at the moment to understand about religion.

I actually agree with what Saffon says, I see it as less about religion and more about some kind MIL reaction to having the matriarch role taken away. Sometimes I do snap at the comments, sometimes I just bite my lip and keep quiet - I do know that it is such HARD work. Comments from my MIL that my husband sees as innocuous or jokey, I interpret as loaded with malice and an attempt to stir. That is kind of what upets me the most - less the big blunderingly stupid comments but more the small little jibes that most people wouldn't notice but I do.

A few things I would say are:

- I remind myself that my children really like my MIL. She is fun to them and so as long as they love having her around I just have to get on with it

- I only ever had one grandparent in my life, the other three were deceased before I was born, so in a way I try to remind myself that my kids are really lucky to have four grandparents actively in their lives who love them dearly (I hope that is the same for you too)

- As annoying as it is, this kind of stuff is all part of family life, so in a way I try and look on the humorous side (am sure I won't feel this way after Xmas!!)

- As difficult as it is for you it is probably even harder for your husband, he is probably quite aware of how difficult his mum is and feels quite awkward

In relation to the 'what would you do?' question I would take my MIL to one side (I have done this before) and explain we are not a religious family and so please stop making biblical references as I would like my children to make their own choices about religion when they are older. If this is met with resistance I would say that if it doesn't stop I will not bring my kids to stay with them anymore!!!

Anyway good luck, I sympathise. Here's to a trouble free Xmas period!!! ;-)

[Pickle]

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts. Xmas will be fine, as we are escaping to the other side of the world to spend it with my family :)

Hubby and I (over far too many drinks on Monday evening) have pretty much agreed that for the forseeable future he will take the kids to see his parents by himself - at present it's difficult as I still breastfeed our baby, but as soon as she doesn't need me I will be happy to wave them all off for the occasional weekend while I enjoy some time to myself. He had a very blunt discussion with his Mum on Monday (not on the religion point, but on the list of other things that have happened over the years) so at least she knows where we are coming from.

I had a Nana (Mum's Mum) who I was very close to growing up, and a Grandma and Grandad (Dad's side) who we had nothing to do with due to the fact they were alcoholics and generally poisonous people to be around. I want my children to have a relationship with their grandparents, but as they get older they are going to have to understand that it's a relationship I'm not part of.

Religion-wise, I very much enjoyed my sons completely non religious play this morning at school. Who needs religion when you can be a laughing Emu...

;)

[veryseriousgirl]

My sympathies! Sounds like your hubby has stepped in, but generally a firm word should stop talk you are not comfortable with around your kids. I, for example, had no idea that my grandmother was deeply racist until after her death. My mother (her DIL) threatened not to let us spend time with her if she "shared" her views on race so she never ever did.