Is this a fair employment contract?

[susyp]

I have just started working part time after 4 years out of work as I took redundancy from my previous job when I got pregnant.

I think that there is a lot of wisdom on this forum over fair working and employment for mums so I wanted to ask some advice. I have avoided signing my contract as instinctively I felt it was better to wait and read it properly than rush into signing it .

Having taken the time to read it properly - I have identified the following problems with it - am I right?

1) They say I can't work for anyone else while working for them. I do 15 hours a week at ?8 an hour .

2) They say I can be required to work extra hours if necessary with no renumeration.

3) I can be required to undertake a medical examination by a doctor of their choice who will then discuss the results with my employers

4) I may be required to take holiday on specific days as stipulated by the organisation.

These are the clauses I have crossed out. Am I being fair?

susypx

[etta166]

1) seems unreasonable, but is legal. It's fairly standard for a full-time contract but less so in a part-time contract. Talk to your employer and ask if they would actually enforce it. Usually this term would be enforced only if you took another job to the detriment of your existing job.

2) this depends on whether you are waged or salaried. The salaried can be expected to work for extra hours without renumeration. Those on an hourly wage, who submit a time-sheet as part of the wage calculation, cannot.

3) this is completely normal

4) this is completely normal. Most of us have to take holiday on Bank Holidays, for example. Other firms may have a shut-down period where you have to take holiday.

Good luck with your new job!

P.S. I post these comments as both an employee and an employer. The contract of employment should protect he interests of both parties to the contract.

[susyp]

Thank you for your advice, much appreciated . I can't sign the first condition as I am actively looking for another job to supplement - I can't feed my family on 15 hours a week at ?8 an hour (well I can feed them, but that's about it).

I also think it is a bit unfair to pay a low wage ie below the living wage and then expect extra hours. I was thinking it would be more sensible to have an extra line that says something - time in lieu will be given. That to me is fair enough.

Doctors one has to come out although I appreciate why it is there. But I have had cancer in the past which they know about but there is no way I am having any doctor examine me !!

the holidays one - fair enough then .

thanks so much

Susypx

[nunheadmum]

On the working for anyone else, could you find a half-way where it's allowed provided you let them know - and I guess there is some right of veto if you're working for someone e.g. in direct competition. I can see that such a clause may be fair whereas an outright ban is unfair.

And on the extra hours, are they likely to call on that clause? I think employers tend to write things like this in a contract to protect themselves should they need it (and on advice from laywers) but in reality, they may not really have any intention to call on it.

I think a lot of these kind of clauses are put in contracts to protect employers in worst case scenarios - not necessarily because they have any intention of using them in the normal run of things with a decent employee. But once in a standard contract, I doubt that employers would be very willing to amend them as it would mean that different employees are employed on different terms. So it may be better trying to get to the root of how they anticipate the clauses being used, rather than trying to get them changed. Challenging them could get you off to a bad start.

[Bouncy]

I have some slightly out-of-date knowledge of employment law from a previous job, and think you are right to be wary, particularly of clauses 1 and 2. Because I'm out-of-date, and there have been recent changes, I won't comment explicitly - but think you should definitely check out the ACAS website http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1360 and phone their free helpline 08457 47 47 47 - they'll be able to advise you properly on each point and on related issues. They were very helpful to a friend recently, and in my experience are competent, qualified and knowledgeable - and, to reiterate, free!

Would be really interested to hear what the outcome of this is. Good luck!

[susyp]

Thank you so much, I will call them. At present the contract seems to have been forgotten but I want to be prepared for when I am asked.

Susypx x

[Grumpy Hamster]

Hi Susyp

Like all these things part of this is to do with the circumstances in which the clauses are used. So, for example if they ask you to be medically examined every week for no apparent reason this would clearly be unreasonable (regardless of what is in the contract). However if they ask for a medical examination because you have been sick for the last 6 months and they wish to understand how much longer you might be absent - this could be reasonable.

Likewise the unpaid overtime. A little bit here and there is usual, but doubling your hours is not (unless its standard for the industry - in which case wage should reflect this). Also be aware of what impact this might have on your pay with regards to the minimum wage - you can not earn less than the national minimum wage (not much but better than nothing).

On the medical examination - you would be asked your permission again regardless of what is in the contract and the medical examiner would ask if you wished to see the report before it is given to your employer - this is governed by seperate legislation which supercedes anything in the contract.

The bit on working elsewhere is unusual and likely to be hard to enforce unless your work involves the liklihood of emergency call outs. I agree with the earlier post - this is more common in f/t jobs or bank/zero hour contracts.

The one on holiday is standard and included in the working time regs.

I also agree with the earlier post about employers sticking things in contracts and not enforcing them.

Finally please remember that since the recent changes - unfair dismissal rights do not kick in until 2 years service. Therefore you are always better off sorting these things out amicably (but especially so in the first 2 years).

I hope everything goes well and you enjoy the new job.

[susyp]

Thank you again for the advice. I had also read about not earning less than the minimum wage if you do extra hours - which does give me a lot of protection as I think that means only about 2 hours more!

Good to know about the medical clause. I do understand it but the idea that anyone could force me to see a doctor was a bit george orwellian - but if there is separate legislation countering it that's fair enough.

It's a charity so I can't really see that there is a competitor. And in any case I am training to be a swimming instructor so it would not exactly be a clash of roles!

So I may just ask for the working elsewhere clause to be taken out. I cannot possibly sign it with that in there. As I am looking for other work to enable me to do this job as it is a cause close to my heart - but it does not pay enough to be viable on it's own - even if they took me full time. I need to find something else to supplement it which pays better!

I think as I used to work for the BBC, which is unionised, it came as quite a shock to be handed a contract like this which is nothing like that would pass through a union!

Really appreciate everyone taking time to advise me,

Susypx

[EDmummy]

Susyp, you may also want to give Macmillan Cancer Support a quick ring or look on their website as they have advice for people affected by cancer and employment. I completely understand how you feel about the medical clause and it might be worth having a conversation with your employer if you are concerned about this.

[susyp]

Yes good idea. That is the only reason I have a problem with it. As I want to choose when and how I would find out were the cancer to return - not be forced to by my employer. But I don't think my employer is that heartless actually!!! But I may explain my concern to my employer.

susypx

[Otta]

I would definitely question point 1. As long as you're not doing other work whilst you're meant to be working g for them, I don't see what possible problem they could have. I used to do all sorts of freelance stuff outside of my full time hours and it never even occurred to me to check whether I was technically meant to.

I'd try talking it through with them.

[bawdy-nan]

ha ha ha ha (hollow) ha ha re bbc

[susyp]

Yes, that seems to be the response of most prospective employers . . .

Susypx

[esme]

if you still need advice ring ACAS - free helpline or go on their website

[Goling]

Grumpy Hamster Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Susyp

>

> Like all these things part of this is to do with

> the circumstances in which the clauses are used.

> So, for example if they ask you to be medically

> examined every week for no apparent reason this

> would clearly be unreasonable (regardless of what

> is in the contract). However if they ask for a

> medical examination because you have been sick for

> the last 6 months and they wish to understand how

> much longer you might be absent - this could be

> reasonable.

>

> Likewise the unpaid overtime. A little bit here

> and there is usual, but doubling your hours is not

> (unless its standard for the industry - in which

> case wage should reflect this). Also be aware of

> what impact this might have on your pay with

> regards to the minimum wage - you can not earn

> less than the national minimum wage (not much but

> better than nothing).

>

> On the medical examination - you would be asked

> your permission again regardless of what is in the

> contract and the medical examiner would ask if you

> wished to see the report before it is given to

> your employer - this is governed by seperate

> legislation which supercedes anything in the

> contract.

>

> The bit on working elsewhere is unusual and likely

> to be hard to enforce unless your work involves

> the liklihood of emergency call outs. I agree with

> the earlier post - this is more common in f/t jobs

> or bank/zero hour contracts.

>

> The one on holiday is standard and included in the

> working time regs.

>

> I also agree with the earlier post about employers

> sticking things in contracts and not enforcing

> them.

>

> Finally please remember that since the recent

> changes - unfair dismissal rights do not kick in

> until 2 years service. Therefore you are always

> better off sorting these things out amicably (but

> especially so in the first 2 years).

>

> I hope everything goes well and you enjoy the new

> job.

PMs