E--scooters

[Mountain walker]

Has anyone seen the police stop anyone illegally riding an e-scooter around East Dulwich?

There are an increasing number of riders who seem to regard the pavement as their domain and when on the road are a menace to all. Our car was damaged by one a few months ago, luckily the rider was honest enough to pay for the repairs.

[Nigello]

I saw a rider fall off one on CPR. He seemed ok and declined help. I think they?re accidents waiting to happen and doubt anyone using them is insured. Look both ways, pedestrians, and tell pavement riders to get off!

[JohnL]

There's a trial of rented ones in London starting in the spring - still illegal on public roads/pavements at present

https://www.energylivenews.com/2020/11/19/london-to-host-uks-largest-e-scooter-trial/

Maybe knowing there's a trial coming up people aren't being stopped - but there will be no valid insurance if they're illegal.

[Blah Blah]

Actually they are not legal anywhere on the public highway. Only the rented ones are legal and you have to have a driving licence and insurance to legally use one. Police just aren't enforcing the law, probably because they are difficult to catch if they don't stop voluntarily. I nearly had a collision with one on Rye Lane a month ago. On my bicycle, he zipped out from behind a cyclist coming the other way and only avoided a accident by inches.

Another problem are electric bikes that are more like mopeds. They can do speeds of 20-30 mpr, but have no plates, also illegal, but used increasingly by takeaway delivery riders. They ride on pavements and pedestrian areas too.

Some enforcement is needed.

[spark67]

Had a scary moment when driving home from work a few weeks ago at junction, lights were green for me, and as I drove through this kid on one swerved out from the left side road junction through a red light right in front of me casing me to break and swerve, he didn't even look at me and shot off as though nothing had happened, shook me right up...I see them everyday, hard to see them at night, especially and thats the ones with lights.

I went to Atlanta last year, and they have the hire ones, main ones by Uber, thy have a curfew on night time use as there were so many accidents and a couple of deaths during the night.

[Monkey]

I?ve had a few big scares recently with those. Always with young kids who have no road sense. I just don?t understand the parents who let them do that...

[Sally Eva]

This one https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53219331 gives the impression they will be legal England-wide but this, later, one is saying they will be legal in trial areas only. The trial areas don't include London.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

There will be a London and Southwark trial soon

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/rental-e-scooters-set-to-come-to-southwark-streets-in-tfl-safety-trial/

[Rockets]

In a year we have come full circle on e-scooters - just over a year ago there was a lot of publicity about their safety and suitability following the death of the blogger Emily Hartridge who was killed whilst riding one. You're right they are illegal to own privately but ok to rent. I think the authorities want to see whether they can regulate the e-scooters sufficiently to reduce the risk of accident - the issue at the moment seems to be that some of the private e-scooters can go way too fast and the riders have no idea how to ride them. I was walking near Hyde Park Corner recently and saw a rider in a near miss as he was weaving his way across the lanes in between cars - he obviously had no clue how to ride it safely and was going way too fast.

I was in Munich last year and they have them there to rent but they are, deliberately, very slow but the locals like to ride them (I saw a lot riding them from the railway stations to the office complexes) but hate the fact their streets are littered with the things as there has been an e-scooter gold rush as companies flock to try and make money from renting them and they tend to be abandoned on every street - they don't seem to have a central hub system like the Boris bikes.

[holloway]

They are absurd, I cannot understand how anyone including grown adults, think they look good going around on one. Whoever invented them should be birched.

[bob]

Nigello I have forwarded these concerns to the Borough Commander and will post his reply in this thread.

Bob S

[malumbu]

holloway Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They are absurd, I cannot understand how anyone

> including grown adults, think they look good going

> around on one. Whoever invented them should be

> birched.

In deed, birching is not a word we hear enough nowadays. Never did me any harm.

[Mark]

I don't think people ride them to "look good" and why forward these concerns to the Borough Commander? There will be a trial, let that decide on the outcome rather than speculation on a forum.

[macutd]

They just need to come under the same rules as just bikes.

[bob]

This is from the Borough Commander

Dear Mr Sowka

?

Thankyou very much for your email and it?s good to know that the Briefing Notes are appreciated.

?

I have asked Sergeant James Bryant to reply to your query about e-scooters as he has researched this topic quite recently.

?

Your support is very much appreciated.

?

Best wishes

?

Tom

?

?

Inspector Tom Cornish | Neighbourhood Policing | Southwark | AS BCU | Peckham Police Station, 177 Peckham High Street, London, SE15 5SL???? tel: 0207 232 6317 | internal: 726317 |? mob: 07775 010409

?

?

?

From: b.sowka [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 27 November 2020 16:32

To: Cornish Tom - AS-CU

Subject: RE: Police Briefing Note

?

Thank you for your Briefing's they are much appreciated and welcomed by the local community as you are aware I repost these to local social media sites one being the EDF. Here is a question that has been put to me and is a prominent issue with many residents.Hello,

Please see this link about e-scooters. People are concerned and don?t see any curtailing of them by police.

[www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk]

Kind Regards?

Robert Sowka?

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy

?

?

-------- Original message --------

From: [email protected]

Date: 25/11/2020 8:24 am (GMT+00:00)

To:

Subject: Police Briefing Note

?

Good morning

?

Please see a Briefing Note below about recent police operations.

?

Thankyou all for your support.

?

Yours sincerely

?

Tom

?

Inspector Tom Cornish | Neighbourhood Policing | Southwark | AS BCU | Peckham Police Station, 177 Peckham High Street, London, SE15 5SL???? tel: 0207 232 6495 | internal: 726495 mobile: 07917 133162 Twitter: @InspTomCornish

?

?

?

?

AS ? Central South

Briefing note

?

On Tuesday, 24 November, officers from the Met?s Specialist Crime South made a number of arrests for drugs supply, violence and firearms offences across south London.

?

The warrants were executed in Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham and were a culmination of a long running operation into violent crime across South London.

?

One man [A], aged 25, was arrested at an address on Gandolfi Street, SE15. He was arrested for attempted murder following a non-fatal shooting in Herne Hill on 10 September, on suspicion of supplying class B drugs and for Section 16 Firearms Offences (possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life or enable another to endanger life).

?

aged 29 and [C] aged 20 were arrested at an address in Denmark Hill Estate, SE5. They were also both arrested for attempted murder for the same non-fatal shooting.

?

All three have been taken into custody suites across London.

?

Detective Inspector Adam Seton, from the Specialist Crime South Proactive syndicates, said: ?Tragically this past weekend has seen two people lose their lives and another seriously injured in a shooting in east London?.

?

?We (MPS officers) are working tirelessly to tackle violent crime in London, bring those responsible to justice and ensure our communities are able go about their daily lives safely without the fear of seeing these truly distressing crimes being committed in their neighbourhoods?.

?

?We need the public to provide us with intelligence, information and names of people who may be in possession of firearms or other weapons and those committing violent crime to allow is to build strong evidential cases and remove dangerous individuals from the streets of London.?

?

Please do contact my staff office or me if you have any questions.

?

Colin Wingrove

Chief Superintendent

BCU Commander ? Central South

?

NOTICE - This email and any attachments are solely for the intended recipient and may be confidential. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this email or in any attachment without the permission of the sender. Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) communication systems are monitored to the extent permitted by law and any email and/or attachments may be read by monitoring staff. Only specified personnel are authorised to conclude binding agreements on behalf of the MPS by email and no responsibility is accepted for unauthorised agreements reached with other personnel. While reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this email, its security and that of any attachments cannot be guaranteed.

NOTICE - This email and any attachments are solely for the intended recipient and may be confidential. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this email or in any attachment without the permission of the sender. Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) communication systems are monitored to the extent permitted by law and any email and/or attachments may be read by monitoring staff. Only specified personnel are authorised to conclude binding agreements on behalf of the MPS by email and no responsibility is accepted for unauthorised agreements reached with other personnel. While reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this email, its security and that of any attachments cannot be guaranteed.

[bob]

Mark

The original post enquiry was about the seemingly lack of a police response to the E scooter as they may not have been aware of the situation I passed this information to them and they have responded positively and very promptly.

Bob S

[malumbu]

Wow Bob, you've filled a whole page with a post. Anyway rightly or wrongly the police do very little enforcement of the Road Traffic Act and the like. It was decided many years ago that this was not a principle role. You could argue why are they not stopping other road users, dangerous drivers, cyclists without lights and pedestrians crossing without looking when crossing the road. The point on violent crime addresses why scooters are not a priority.

Not a debating point just a reality check. e scooters are with us, heaven knows how you manage them with limited street space.

[TJ]

This is ridiculous discussion.

You have e bikes, scooters, e scooters, runners, walkers, strollers, buggies and dogs all on pavements. And more.

We just need to get along.

you get bell ends on ebikes, bikes and yes you get bell ends on escooters.

Just get a grip and get on with everyone.

Or head up a mountain in your own where you don?t need to complain about anyone.

[ianr]

Inspector Tom Cornish of Southwark Neighbour Policing has replied to me saying he's "asked Sergeant James Bryant to reply to your query about e-scooters as he has researched this topic quite recently."

bob, this is more or less what your mammoth post above could look like without, I think, any obvious loss. It took me 18 mouse scrolls to get through without, I think, finding anything more in it to the point. You're not the only one by any means. Too many posters don't seem to realise that quotation can be selective, and very often ought to be.

[leenorris78]

TJ Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is ridiculous discussion.

> You have e bikes, scooters, e scooters, runners,

> walkers, strollers, buggies and dogs all on

> pavements. And more.

>

A jogger, runners, walkers, strollers, buggies and dogs are not doing 20 mph in near silence.

[Rockets]

BBC News - How green and profitable are e-scooters?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55107754

[malumbu]

Didn't see any mention of Southwark in the BBC article. I thought that the council was the route of all evil Rockets. You do seem to jump on anything and everything to push your argument.

This does seem to be a pointless thread as I haven't seen anything constructive apart from TJ - we all need to get on together. If we were better at sharing street space then perhaps we wouldn't need some of the draconian action being debated ad infinitum on other threads.

That said I usually argue the opposite the most road users are courteous and respectful of others. There's a certain competence that you need in using a road vehicle be it a car/motorbike or pushbike. The easier you make it to use, ie ebike, then some of that goes out of the window. I expect bikeability lessons to be extended one way or another to e scooters in the not too distant future.

[Nigello]

Courtesy is key but so is road safety training and insurance. A happy, smiley person on an e-scooter (illegal) can still cause and/or be a vict8m of an RTA. They?re not to be used unless they?re insured and taxed like other vehicles that can reach 25+mph.

[Rockets]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Didn't see any mention of Southwark in the BBC

> article. I thought that the council was the route

> of all evil Rockets. You do seem to jump on

> anything and everything to push your argument.

>

> This does seem to be a pointless thread as I

> haven't seen anything constructive apart from TJ -

> we all need to get on together. If we were better

> at sharing street space then perhaps we wouldn't

> need some of the draconian action being debated ad

> infinitum on other threads.

>

> That said I usually argue the opposite the most

> road users are courteous and respectful of others.

> There's a certain competence that you need in

> using a road vehicle be it a car/motorbike or

> pushbike. The easier you make it to use, ie

> ebike, then some of that goes out of the window.

> I expect bikeability lessons to be extended one

> way or another to e scooters in the not too

> distant future.

Errrrr.....it's a piece published today that is both interesting and timely on e-scooters....Malumbu you seem to be getting more and more irate as people debate and you seem to take particular pleasure in depositioning anyone with a view other than your own (see thread on the concerns raised about lack of good Covid behaviour on Lordship Lane).

You seem to be the one person not encouraging debate just telling everyone how pointless their debates are. It's all a getting bit odd.

[Rockets]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Courtesy is key but so is road safety training and

> insurance. A happy, smiley person on an e-scooter

> (illegal) can still cause and/or be a vict8m of an

> RTA. They?re not to be used unless they?re insured

> and taxed like other vehicles that can reach

> 25+mph.

I think you hit the nail on the head and it is the speed and acceleration that is the issue. Cars and other vehicles accelerate, in tbe main, in a uniform and predictable manner when on roads and there is an element of predictability to their movements. E-scooters create a couple of challenges due to the speeds and acceleration and their upright riding position creates a centre of gravity issue that means they can become unstable very quickly. I think this is why that whilst many acknowledge they are a good way to encourage different modes of transport they are not without significant challenges.

In fact, the coroner ruled that Emily Hartridge died after being thrown off her e-scooter after she drove over a road inspection hatch in the cycle lane and that her e-scooter was being driven too fast, unsuitably and had an underinflated tyre.