Increased Congestion Carge petition

[zephyr]

We have a 2002 VW Sharan which we need as we are a family of 6. It will be subject to the increased congestion charge of ?25 when it comes in as it is 5g/km over the 225g/km of CO2 emissions limit. Quite bizarrely cars like the BMW X5 and several other very large cars will not be subject to this charge. It will it a lot of 'family' cars.

Porsche have started an online petition and is looking for a judicial review about this.

We very very rarely drive into London but even so ?25 is ridiculous.

You can check whether your car will be hit by this charge by looking it up (downloads area)here

Other links

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7259368.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7242445.stm

[Nero]

Good luck, but Mr Mayor is a law unto himself. Vote LibDem! Nero

[dulwichmum]

Dear Zephyr,

I am afraid that I find it impossible to sign your petition. Porche are such a dreadfully blingtastic company, I could have had some sympathy with their arguement if this petition had been started by Audi (a different matter altogether). I am actually looking forward to the new congestion charge, I think that G-Whizz cars sound like death traps, and they are doing a roaring trade due to the fact that they and other similarly ugly eco vehicles can avoid paying the current charge. Yes the new congestion charge specifically persecutes the enormous gas guzzlers (of which I own a selection) and will consider it a complete pleasure to demonstrate that I can afford to pay the new tax, so that the chief executive of my company (who clearly will no longer be driving to work) will understand just how wealthy I actually am!

Couldn't you hire a cab?

[Michael Palaeologus]

Surely Porsche drivers can afford this trifling additional cost?

[SeanMacGabhann]

If Ken is a law unto himself, he's a law that's been re-elected so a lot of people seem to "get" him

Zephyr - with a slight pause to apoligise for the ferocity of the rest of the email (I don't know you after all)

but

...

I find the original post nigh-on fantasy. Someone who chooses to have a big family and drive a tank THEN starts to complain about a ?25 charge - people on public transport with families have been paying that for years. Grow up

Out of all of the various leaders at least someone is paying more than lip service to both congestion AND environmental pollution. If you don't care about either of those then say so and put up. If you do care about those then it takes self-interest to new levels to start bleating only when you are affected. You could EASILY get around the ?25 charge

a) I suspect you can afford it anyway. So you could pay

b) park just outside the zone and walk the rest. What's that - no fresh air for the kids? Wonder why that is...

c) get a more efficient tank

But no - get a petition going. Start talking about money-grabbing "others". But do not take any responsibility at all for yourself. Don't start to differentiate between "flash" cars and family cars. You know full well the size and heft of the car you got and you know full well that a family of six can get by with less. You don't want to and that's fair enough. But don't assume we will all run to a petition

A lot of us do want to see less congestion - buses run so much smoother without so many cars darling - and would like to see less congestion and pollution -better health for kids

http://breathspakids.blogspot.com/2006/09/more-bad-news-about-traffic-pollution.html

[dulwichmum]

Darling Sean! You take my breath away. How completely and utterly right on!

Get a new mini D, I believe you will get 68 miles to the galon and avoid the new congestion charge. As there are six of you, get the bus and let your wife drive the new super nippy car!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Alternatively buy a long wheeled base landrover that seats at least 9 - you get away with the congestion charge and I'm sure you could afford the 5 inches per gallon it will consume.

[dulwichmum]

Indeedy, or a helicopter even, or a lear jet? I should abandon the Sharan and take to the air. Surely a family as large as yours would be better off getting air lifted to locations.

[annaj]

Well said Sean.

I have nothing to add, I just wanted to agree!

[Moos]

I agree with a lot that Sean said, but I do wonder whether it would have been fairer to introduce a separate charge specifically related to emissions, rather than changing what was a congestion charge into a pollution charge? I wouldn't disagree with the need for either, but I do think a bit of openness and consultation would have been appropriate.

[zephyr]

Several points:

I am not offended by the above posts including Sean's as I expected this sort of reaction from some forumites.

Its not my petition

I figured it would be a good topic for discussion

It is safer to carry 6 people in a car designed for 6 people (or more in some cases)

May be I should have kept my 2.4lt Toyota Previa that did 14mpg round town rather than upgrading to a more efficient car. My old gas guzzler is exempt from this increased charge.

Of course it was our choice to have a larger than average family (I came from a large family) and I can afford a car. I will buy the safest/most economic I can afford and this one was it.

I think the problem is that it has been fairly arbitarily set - it does not even keep in line with the Vehicle Excise Duty. My car is in band F whereas the 'gas guzzlers' are in band G Cars emitting >225g/km registered after 2006

Dulwichmum - I think you're great!

[zephyr]

Forgot to add that whenever I go into town during the week it is usually on my motorbike anyway which is exempt.

I probably only take the car in once a year but it is the principle of how it is applied that I have an issue with.

[PeckhamRose]

I'm with Sean but also my attitude is that it's not a congestion charge anymore anyway, it's a dirty-fuel-BIG-car-charge. If all the cars became hybrids (and even hybrids use the petrol bit when in the CC area) then the congestion charge area would be ... congested!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Zephyr

good post - and on an objective level tis a good topic for discussion. The development and evolution of the congestion charge (and whatever comes down the pipe to deal with a problem that is going to get MUCH worse) is a topic ripe for dicussion. Unfortunately it tends to get framed by people with mostly self-interest at heart

The current system isn't perfect by any means. As you and PeckhamRose point out the shift to pollution means congestions increases and is also subject to inconsistencies

That said what is actually important is the principle - tackling both congestion and emissions. As you poinit out the charge is arbitrary - but it;s hard to think of any system which isn't. TO look at the tube map for example it's littered with arbitrary nonsense - who decides where the zones start for example. But we have been living with it for decades and decades witho9ut recourse to petitions and angry phone ins to talk radio shows. In most aspects of life, rules exist to allow differing interests to co-exist. Arbitration. Which by definition means some of it is arbitrary

Leaving aside your personal situation I'm interested in other ideas for tackling both congestion and emissions (from anyone)

My preference is to avoid legislation and systems but to encourage people to drive less - but clearly that just doesn't work. So if you were in charge.....

[dulwichmum]

Zephyr dear heart,

I love you too, you know how much I enjoy a good ruck, but I genuinely do not mean to cause offence.

[zephyr]

I guess that the problem is that it is now being seen as an 'Emissions' charge and not a 'Congestion Charge'.

All I think will happen is that more and more people will register their cars as private hire cars with the TFL Public carriage office) and pay a fixed amount (about ?80) for the year)

I don't know if they still do it but Athens used to have a policy whereby cars were banned from the city on alternate days depending upon their registration numbers. If your reg had an even number then you could enter on certain days and not on others. There alternative was true for odd numbers.

Now that sort of system would be funky for london!

[SeanMacGabhann]

well it would certainly work but I can imagine the outcry already! ("my job takes me into Laaahndan every day - how am I supposed to do 2-3 days a week?" etc)

[SteveT]

Zephyr wrote Athens used to have a policy whereby cars were banned from the city on alternate days depending upon their registration numbers.

Everyone in athens bought a second old banger with the other number plate according to an athenian I know.;-)

My car is 16 years old and a gas guzzler by todays standards. I do about 5000 miles pa. I have considered getting another car that is leaner but of course that takes more of the planets resources than sticking with my present car which sails through the mot emissions annually and I have never put oil in the engine from new, it has done 170,000 miles.

What to do?

[*Bob*]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My car is 16 years old ... I have never put oil in the engine from new, it has done 170,000 miles.

> What to do?

I'd say change it's time for an oil change, Steve.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Agree with Bob - you are likely to blow the engine up which is a damn sight more expensive to replace than a can of oil.

[Michael Palaeologus]

It will have had an oil change everytime it has been serviced and probably when MOTd.

[LostThePlot]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> SteveT Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > My car is 16 years old ... I have never put oil

> in the engine from new, it has done 170,000

> miles.

> > What to do?

>

> I'd say change it's time for an oil change, Steve.

Here Here.....Poor bloody thing. FWIW I change every 6000 miles.

[atila the gooner]

I don't drive into London cos there's nowhere to park. I take a train, much easier.

[zephyr]

OK then, just to be fair, here is the website for the Alliance Against Urban 4x4s

I emailed them yesterday and pointed out the mistake in teir letter to the Porsche MD and CEO. They are under he impression that this will only affect Band G cars however band G ony came about from March 2006. The I mentioned that the charge was for ALL cars registered after March 2001 with emissions of >225g/km which included the majority of MPVs and even some hatchbacks and saloons.

They have replied saying they weill clarify with the GLA but think that it is sensible only to target Band G cars.

Blimey even these Alliance people agree with me (I bet they own MPVs!)

[Keef]

I agree with the congestion charge, but I think ?25 is a p!ss take. I don't drive though and I get a free travel card so what do I care.

I would however love to see a 4x4 run over Ken, then reverse slowly just to make sure the poisoned dwarf was totally crushed out of existence!