Question for long-term ED residents.

[Keef]

In terms of the schools, it's all about the village, and the fact Dulwich College owns a shed load of land.

ED was never a run down sh!t hole, it was just a normal area. Someone mentioned the East Dulwich Tavern and The Uplands, what about the Mag, that used to be proper rough once upon a time.

Crystal Palace Tavern and The Plough used to be the nicer pubs to visit.

[KalamityKel]

Have to disagree with the Plough once being nice... altho I hear it's much better these days :p

[jimbo1964]

The Plough was fine before they added that monstrous carbuncle of a conservatory on the back and refurbed it (although it did smell of chips in the evening).

I never set foot in the CPT in those days but my dad liked it.

[BARA]

having lived all my life in ED from 1950s (except for 3 years in Forest Hill) - it was never a 'rough' working class area.

Had a large group of elderly people, and I suppose that in the 1950s, anyone over 45 was 'elderly'.

The Odeon Cinema in Grove Vale was always packed for the saturday morning kids club. Gateways was the first supermarket in the area (was it called Gateways upon opening?) must have been in early 60s - what an excitment. Grove Vale school (Goose Green now) served, along with Heber and St Johns (then in North X Rd) the ED kids. No Dog Kennel Hill school then, so all my friends came from the DKH Estate.

You were posh if you went to the village schools and lived in Court Lane, Woodwarde, Townley and Eynella.

In the mid 1970s to get your child into Dulwich Village Infants, you had to state how much you were prepared to pay for a'brick' the old school was being rebuit/extended. Those who got in were the ones who offerd the most money for a brick.

I think we offered around ?30 (which was my weekly take home pay) - a friend on benefit, got her parents to offer ?100 -

needless to say she got in and we did'nt.

You were posh if you did'nt go to the Sat. morning cinema, and posh girls did'nt hang upside down on the railing by side of cinema showing their navy blue knickers. Washing machines were a luxury in the 60s

ED was dead in the 60s for teenagers- Peckham was the place to go to get your Levi/Wrangler jeans (pale blue), chelsea boots and records from Woolies.Peckham was so up market - it had a Wimpy Bar. I cannot remember ED even having a cafe, but we did have a Chinese restaurant the White Swan?.

If you were posh in 60s you did not eat spag bol as unladylike slurping up the pasta and getting chin covered in sauce.

Nearest Italian in early 60s was Lewisham.

[Louisa]

Why is it only the middle class home counties brigade who term an area 'rough' before they came in and did their magic. ED has never been a rough area, it's certainly been better than Camberwell Peckham Forest Hill and Brixton for at least 35 years priod to any gentrification locally. I think Dulwich Village has seen to that in the most part. As for the schools well as with most private schools they set up on the borders or within a nice area and attract outsiders. Why is all of this such a revelation for you Cassius?

[MadWorld74]

I wonder why you still live in the area Louisa......really I do.

[Jah Lush]

Loved the post Bara and it brought back quite a few memories for me. I can remember getting things like Ben Sherman shirts in Dales in Peckham and using the market for things like Harrington jackets and Crombie overcoats and reggae records although, I'd normally go to Brixton for that.

I remember going to the Saturday morning kids cinema in Grove Vale a few times when I was kid but me and my mate would usually get thrown out for fighting and this from a boy brought up in the "posh" Village.

My parents bought a house late in 1959 in Pickwick Road in the heart of the village for ?1,500. We stayed there until I was 18 when my dad's building business went tits up and we couldn't afford to live there anymore and had to move to "Wild" West Norward. But, I was 18 then and by the time I was 20 was renting flats in East Dulwich.

East Dulwich was never really rough, sure some of it's pubs would have a few rows in them on a Saturday night but who could say that a few of them don't now.

It's certainly been gentrified a bit but some people on here would have it that it was a bit of a dump and it most certainly wasn't.

[fonson]

I have lived in the area for almost 15 years as well as attending Thomas Calton School on Adys Road for 1 year back in 1981 before I was swiftly moved to Archbishop Tenison's in Kennington. I bought in ED in '93 because it always had a good reputation and it looks as if I made the right choice. I have always enjoyed living here and welcome the new trends coming into the area. ED has never been a rough area. I would say that Clapham was rougher before the gentrification kicked in.

As well as the posh schools we had the above mentioned TC along with William Penn and Kingsdale, these were quite rough schools at the time. I have seen Camberwell go down hill in recent years and one of the contribuying factors was the demise of the north Peckham estate.

One thing to remember,places like ED and Clapham are unfortunately surrounded by high crime areas. Keep safe!

[????]

I don't think Louisa deserves that criticism on this occasion Mad. Certainly, there is a kind of ongoing sentiment among some on here that before the arrival of the East Dulwich Deli, SE22 was a dickensian rookery of Ne'er do wells...which is laughable.

[fonson]

Well said ????, the people who talk this rubbish obviously come from outside London or abroad. They have no idea of the recent history of South London and need to be educated.

[cdonline]

The big difference has been the revitalisation of Lordship Lane and local bars and restaurant. Most of the houses are the same on the outside.

My recollection is that the early 80's had a huge impact on the local economy with many businesses going under.

Peckham used to have a very different Rye Lane with the chains like Marks and Spencers, BHS and C&A and the Co-op having three stores (I think). As well as Jones and Higgins, the department store and the antqiue shops near the park, including Austin's. The vast majority of smaller shops went under, only a few are still going, Regan's and the opticians are the only two I can think of.

My perhaps hazy mind remembers Lordship Lane as being a bit second best.

[????]

yup - the parking hitlers finally put the nail in Peckham for shopping

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

You forgot Wilsons the cycle shop!

[lilolil]

and when FOXTONS was Woolworths........................

[BJL]

...and China China restaurant where the Tulip Cafe is now. The owners went on holiday about 20 years ago but sadly, never returned.

[ontheedge]

As far as I can remember it was the coming of Sainsburys to DKH that saw the demise of many of the shops, Smiths the Greengrocers Heads the butchers and many others. The Chinese that is now the Tulip Cafe only closed in about 1992, gosh thats 16 years ago time does fly.There was Gents mens shop where the Sea Cow is now that sold some great mens clothes better than White Stuff and run by John Fisher RIP who was raised in the flat above.The Foresters was one of my favourite pubs in the early nintiesit was very well ran by a guy called George. And upstairs at the EDT for comedy and celebrity ub quizz were fab.

ED in my 17 years here has never been rough.

[KalamityKel]

I am a little confused with the term "rough". Are we meaning rough as in crime, attitude or by looks?

[spadetownboy]

im here from 92 and while there have been a few changes in the cosmetic appearance ie more cafes and tit-tat shops the place has generally remained the same. i suppose it depends on your general attitiude as to whether or not the changes are for the better but certainly there have been some welcome improvements. the so called change to gentrification came in a lot earlier than what a lot of people realise while it has certainly taken off in the past few years there was a lot going on well before that eg the edt totally changed in the mid 90s, for anyone who doesnt know it used to be split into 2 halfs and was a rough as sandpaper before it became all open plan and wooden decor etc, the forresters was a dump full of manky old sofas. while there have been new cafes and shops etc brought into the area a lot of the stuff on the strip has also been here for a long while and is quite well established. i personally think that not a great deal has changed for the worse but where i do feel that some of the ed oldtimers are put out is when newcomers move into the area and dismiss places such as iceland,somerfield,harvester etc places which have been long established in ed and which serve a pretty useful function. the rough has to live with the smooth and while there have bene some changes over the years mainly for the good,there is not a place in the uk where similar has happened and probably accompanied with the usual whinging and moaning, people dont tend to like change but when it happens you,d be surprised as to how well they adapt to it. we are all lucky enough to live in a wonderful,vibrant part of town, which retains most of its old characterisitcs but still moves on with the times,embrace it.

[Asset]

In re: the 'posh schools', Edward Alleyn, a famous Elizabethan actor (along with Richard Burbage - Burbage Rd geddit), purchased the manor of Dulwich in the 1600s and proceeded to build Dulwich College. His wife was called somebody Woodward (poss Woodwarde Rd). The 'posh schools' I believe were originally all connected with Dulwich College. The original JAGS site is next to the Barclays bank in the village.

As few of the houses around the village date from the 1600s I would imagine the village grew as a result of the schools and not the other way round as is being implied here.

[macroban]

> imagine the village grew as a result of the schools

News to King Edgar in 963AD!

[Nero]

My perhaps hazy mind remembers Lordship Lane as being a bit second best.

How times change! Rye Lane is now awful, dirty and samey. Let's hope it gets spruced up a bit in the future, not with organic caffs and knicknack purveyors, but with the return of M and S. Who knows? If it was nice then went crap it might become nice again. Nero

[Asset]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > imagine the village grew as a result of the

> schools

>

> News to King Edgar in 963AD!

Well yes, I'm not saying there was nothing here before the school, but the streets of Townley and Calton etc were built in Edwardian times no? You know what I mean Macro, in 963AD there would have been a few adobe huts, the school appeared in the 1600s and the hamlet has grown around it ever since.

[macroban]

Yes, the Dulwich Estate started to regenerate after the coming of the railways. Prior to that both Dulwich (and then then not named) East Dulwich did market gardening and dairy for the Metropolis.

On "The Dulwich Experiment"; it came as a surprise that the LCC bought 90% of the Dulwich College places for scholarships. At current prices of annual fees >?12k this was a major expenditure. It does explain why, in the 1950s and 1960s, quite a few East Dulwich boys from lowly families attended Dulwich College.

[Sue]

Yep, two of my cousins lived on a council estate in Dulwich in the fifties, both got scholarships to Dulwich College, they both did very well and one went on to Cambridge.

[Asset]

DC and Alleyn's still do scholarships and bursary places