What's happening with Dulwich Hospital?

[Chillaxed]

No rush, take your time.

[first mate]

Strawbs,

Quite. Parents are an important part of the community but lets not forget all the other members that may also require Seldoc and similar services. I am in little doubt that a goodly part of the land should continue to be used by the NHS. What about the needs of the elderly and the disabled?

[KidKruger]

Hold on, the wing of the hospital was demolished BEFORE there was a plan agreed for use of the land ?

[LondonMix]

Health Involvement, thanks for the update.

[Health Involvement]

As promised, we just wanted to let you know that our consultation on health services in Dulwich and the surrounding areas is now under way.

This formal public consultation, which asks for your views on which community-based health services should be available to local people and how they should be delivered, runs until 31 May 2013.

You can download the consultation document at: www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk, or request a hard-copy from [email protected] (Tel: 0808 178 9055)

As part of the consultation there are two public meetings and a number of drop-in sessions for a conversation or to give your views. These are below:

PUBLIC MEETINGS (book in advance on the website)

St Barnabas Church, Calton Avenue,

London, SE21 7DG

Tuesday 30 April in the evening from 19:00

Wednesday 22 May in the afternoonf rom 14:00

DROP INS (just turn up)

Cambridge House

1 Addington Square, Camberwell,

London SE5 0HF

Tuesday 19 March 2013 from 10:00 to 12:30

Peckham Library

122 Peckham Hill Street, SE15 5JR

Friday 22 March 2013 from 14:00 to 16:30

Gaumont House Surgery

153 Peckham High Street, Peckham, SE15 2AU

Wednesday 1 May from 10:00 to 12:30

Dulwich Community Hospital

East Dulwich Grove, Dulwich, SE22 8PT

Wednesday 8 May 2013 from 18:00 to 20:00

[ianr]

> You can download the consultation document at: www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk

Actually http://www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk/improving_services_consultation. Not specifically about Dulwich Hospital, of course.

[Health Involvement]

Don't forget that if you want to come to one of our public discussion events, you need to book in advance so we can make sure we have enough space and enough people on-hand for everyone to take part.

These will take place on:

Tuesday 30 April in the evening from 19:00

Wednesday 22 May in the afternoon from 14:00

at St Barnabas Church.

You can book at: www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk/improving_services_consultation/get_involved

[Earl Aelfheah]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Hold on, the wing of the hospital was demolished

> BEFORE there was a plan agreed for use of the land

> ?

Yeah, what is that about? Anyone know the answer?

[the-e-dealer]

Boody hell youve got to be kidding kruger. If it was ear marked as a Victorian NHS Museum by some Arabs we've been robbed! Better tell the press!

[KalamityKel]

I hope it is realised the land isn't up for grabs to anyone and everyone - it still belongs to the NHS!

[Health Involvement]

The consultation on 'Improving health services in Dulwich and the surrounding areas' continues until the end of May 2013. There are two public events, which you can book to attend, [as well as several drop ins].

Public events are on 30 April 2013 from 19:00 and 22 May 2013 from 14:00

Book in advance at: www.eventbrite.co.uk/org/3342531072?s=12883252

You can read the proposals and give us your thoughts using the online questionnaire:

www.southwarkccg.nhs.uk/GetInvolved/ImprovingServicesConsultation/Pages/default.aspx

[bels123]

Does anyone know if the remaining part of the hospital is listed? It would be terrible to lose such a beautiful building entirely.

[missbabs]

m

[Borderlands]

From the fuller documents it is clear that the hospital is doomed.

The idea is that a new build, presumably PFI, healthcare centre will be put there, following a skewed consultation that does not allow those of us who do not want this to say no. See my other post on this.

Then the land left over from this will be offered to another public sector user for something else to be built (rather than much needed green space in our increasingly over-developed borough) - AND, of course, there is no money for public sector provision at the moment (and what would be appropriate). Then when this doesn't work out presumably SOuthwark Council will be asked to rule on selling the land off to a landbanker (say a shopping mall or large office or housing development) - and they won't be able to refuse as they would be too scared of the financial ramifications if challenged by a developer -look at the fiasco over the selling off of the land that was the estate at Elephant & Castle to an Australian developer who is in trouble presumably for similar deals in the US. Peter John doesn't seem to have been advised of this by council officers - but presumably this is the kind of thing we should get used to as market rules take over former publicly owned facilties.

[first mate]

Seriously, the whole thing is going to be ripped down?

[UncleBen]

Complete travesty to lose the hospital and building. That rubbish bit of concrete at southbank that yobs skate on will be saved though.what a contrast. Thank your local libdems for doing nothing to save the hospital.

[Chillaxed]

The paper does not say so explicitly, but there are several references to the building being unfit for purpose and expensive to maintain, so it's not an unreasonable inference.

first mate Wrote:

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> Seriously, the whole thing is going to be ripped

> down?

[Pugwash]

lambeth and Southwark Social SErvices used to be on the 1st floor of Dulwich Hospital but when the wards closed they moved nearer Kings. Another social services team were due to be based there pending a more permanent venue being found, however the move was delayed several months as surveyors found that the structural framework of the floor ( which was originally one of the old wards) was so dangerous, the floor was coming away from the walls and was in danger of collapse. We heard later that many of the old wards were in a similiar state. Much of the building which was in regular use was in prefabricated units attached to the old hospital. If the fabric of the hospital was in better shape, it would have been retained and a very expensive refurbishment taken place. Many of the external walkways linking the various sections of the building could not be used as crumbling.

Southwark COuncil as far as I can recall do not own the land - was NHS Southwark and with the new change over from April this year I cannot recall who the new owners are

[Health Involvement]

Our consultation on health services in Dulwich and the surrounding areas came to a close at the end of May 2013 and the consultation responses have been evaluated. We are now holding at feedback event at which Opinion Leader (who undertook the evaluation) will share the key themes that emerged during the consultation process. There will also be an opportunity to ask questions about what local people and organisations told us. A light lunch and refreshments will be provided.

The event will take place at 12 midday on Thursday 8 August, at Cambridge House

To ensure we have sufficient space and refreshments, please let us know you?ll be attending by booking in advance.

You can book at: www.eventbrite.co.uk/event/7328033345

The consultation evaluation report and equalities impact assessment will be discussed at the CCG governing body meeting on 11 July 2013 and will be available on our website at: www.southwarkccg.nhs.uk if you would like to read the report before attending the meeting.

Following this, NHS Southwark CCG?s governing body will meet on 12 September 2013 to agree on a number of recommendations arising from the consultation.

[east-of-the-Rye]

Could Health Involvement tell us roughly what time scale they are looking at? The site (of the demolished part of the hospital)has been empty for ages, and may be empty for another 2 or 3 years. What about clearing the site and installing modern prefabs, preferably by a co-op for local people but even if by a profit making student accommodation company, at least the land would be used not just empty.

[UncleBen]

Caroline pidgeon is preggers, and thats why the libdems are hell bent on a school and the old beautiful hospital being ConDemd.

[Countrlass22]

Thought it was to be new harris primary school on demolished part of site.

[Burbage]

east-of-the-Rye Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Could Health Involvement tell us roughly what time

> scale they are looking at? The site (of the

> demolished part of the hospital)has been empty for

> ages, and may be empty for another 2 or 3 years.

Health Involvement are't bothered about the specifics of the site. Not until there are accepted and finalised proposals for it, which, as yet, there aren't.

Remember, this consultation, which followed up from last year's consultation on whether or not Dulwich felt the need for healthcare services (it did, oddly enough) is about whether Option A or Option B or possibly Option Alternative (to be specified by the respondent) was the best framework within those services should be provided.

Option A involved GPs staying much as they are, handing out cosy chats to anyone who can book three days in advance, and chucking everything medical down the road to either A&E (as at present), or to a Community Health Hub* possibly on the site of the Dulwich hospital site.

Option B is exactly the same, but allows GPs to additionally cherry-pick some of the polyclinic work, according to taste or avarice. In theory this would work if people got the appropriate illnesses for the surgery they were registered with, and chose their practice on grounds of what they were likely to suffer from rather than, say, where they lived. If this was chosen, then the polyclinic needed might be smaller.

Unsurprisingly, except perhaps to Health Involvement, Option A has won by a small margin, and found favour with Dame Tessa (who sent in a page or two explaining why local services should be near where people live) and King's (who thought it would help their "admission avoidance" strategy).

Other opinions were offered including two possible alternatives. The Chemists sent in a briefish note claiming that it would save a lot of time and trouble if they were given the money instead, and "a Dulwich resident" sent in a 17-page thesis calling for the wholesale reorganisation of the nation's health and care services, an extension to the 42 bus route and the conversion of the ruined hospital into a clinical utopia for the over-65s.

Some other 'stakeholders' were more neutral. The Chartered Society of Physiotherapists sent in six pages of spectacularly irrelevant marketing boilerplate, and the Londonwide LMCs ("the professional voice of London general practice") somewhat over-eagerly demanded a sight of a business plan, which suggests what the GPs have top of their priorities. Though given Concordia - of Melbourne Grove notoriety - has a friend on the CCG, I suspect they're whistling in the wind. But it would be invidious to single out the quacks, especially when the third sector, in the form of Healthwatch Southwark and Community Action Southwark, responded jointly with an altruistic pitch for the latter's e-marketplace software.

Anyhow, for those interested in reading the survey responses in their tedious entirely, here's the bunch of links that Health Involvement failed to provide.

Consultation Report

Appendix 1a

Appendix 1b

They're all available from the CCG Meeting Papers Page Under Governing Body on the right, click on the Meeting Date : 11/07/2013, then on 'more' and they're somewhere in there.

Now, you might criticise "Health Involvement" for not giving the links, or failing to give the date and location of the "feedback" event or of failing to give more than two working day's notice. You might criticise them for holding roadshows the pitched up for just 90 minutes at random weekday teatimes. You might even go so far as to point out that 215 questionnaires is pretty poor return for all documents they distributed, and that by solely targeting frequent users of existing services in their consultations, they will obviously have skewed their sample.

But you can't criticise them for not knowing about plans that, even if they do exist, aren't yet refined enough to the point where they know what will be required, let alone built or when.

If you're still in need of weekend reading, I found, while flailing about in the squalour of their unnavigable and acronym-bespattered little website, an impressively detailed report from BDO that's supposed to inform the wider, and entirely separate, consultation into provision in Southwark generally (though possibly not the bit of the consultation that's public), which makes interesting reading, especially in light of some of the rantier health-related threads on this forum. Admittedly, BDO have got the Dulwich options the wrong way round, which might cast a degree of suspicion on their attention to detail, but nobody's perfect, however much they get paid.

Enjoy.

* The key difference between a nice Community Health Hub, run by a GP-led consortium, and the hateful sort of Polyclinic, run by an NHS Trust, that GPs were up in arms against five years ago, is where the money goes.

[UncleBen]

Its all hogwash to sell off the land to private developers, build a school (next door to a hosp oh yeh) for the irresponsible birthrate explosion, incl' pidgeon who is running Barber et al. Rip the fantastic building to shreds on the false grounds of cost and elf & safety. The consultation was and is a joke. Ask for the evidence for the results of the consultation and all you can be provided with is Post It notes! And demolition and building to be done at a huge profit out of taxpayers cash.