Promoting cycling and walking

[malumbu]

Lots going on but one hell of a backlash on this forum re: Low Traffic Neighbourhoods. Three areas of particular interest to me

1. How LTN - Low Traffic Neighbourhoods - could be done better (rather than individual threads about where a vocal (minority?) are up in arms) PS behaviour change takes time and got some good stuff from Sustrans, will post later rather than inflame things further as it can look a little patronising.

2. Linked to the above, safer cycling and shared road space. Pavements aren't for cyclists but most road users believe roads aren't similarly. There is still mass antipathy from drivers towards cyclists. Rather than change this view and actually get 20mph zones etc to work we have instead moved to segregated cycle ways, which can be a clumsy compromise.

3. Cycle theft. I pop to the shops for a paper, have to chain my bike up and take the lights off, taking longer than actually being in the shop. I go out for the night, will my bike still be there when I return? Had four nicked, three in London. One was on gumtree the same evening, but the police were not resourced to chase this up.

PS Bike Register marking, Franklins, Saturday 31st 10 - 2

[JohnL]

No funding for cycle ways that aren't physically segregated will be allowed IIRC.

On bike theft - surprised they're not all chipped with GPS in the frames already - not sure of the best process to manage stolen bikes that are being tracked though.

[malumbu]

Come on those on the General ED issues part of the forum, give me your views (please). I'll post a link to some wonderful lockable public cycling racks in the morning (to tired now). Now that would be a good investment by the PM

[Northern Star]

1) Timed closure. Use cameras. Let residents through. Planters block the route of emergency services so I am not keen. LTNs focuses on a small area - and in my view pushes traffic onto other streets. I would like to see investment in public transport. Investment in segregated bike lanes.

2) I much prefer segregated bike lanes. I have had a fair few near misses in 20 mph zones (commuting to work) - segregated lanes would make me feel a lot more safe. I would also feel confident enough to take the kids on longer bike rides if bike lanes were segregated.

3) no idea what to do regarding bike thefts.

[legalalien]

1. Stop making everything about cycling. Constant emphasis about how we?re all supposed to cycle everywhere weakens the core message of reducing traffic in my opinion. For lots of people walking or public transport are much more feasible solutions (I know, COVID but that won?t be for ever). The aim is to reduce car journeys, not to get everyone on a bike. One current outcome of the local LTN is much more air pollution on EDG which is a key pedestrian route and hard to find an alternative to. People who can?t or don?t want to cycle see LTNs as something ?not for them?.

2. An initial focus on things everyone can agree on eg timed school streets. This thing needs to be done with popular consent.

3. Proper pollution monitoring and need to move quickly to make whatever adjustments are needed to protect the health of those on main roads. That should have been done first.

4. If you walk to the shop your bike won?t be stolen 😂

[malumbu]

The intention is to both get people out of their cars and get them onto the footpath or pedals. Perhaps the message is too dominated by cycling - but irrespective of some positive stats most drivers don't want to switch to active travel - antipathy towards cyclists is well known but not sure if the same reasons apply to walking.

The argument in terms of health benefits are compelling before we even start to consider emissions:

Physical activity, like cycling and walking, can help to prevent and manage over 20 chronic conditions and diseases, including some cancers, heart disease, type 2 diabetes and depression. Physical inactivity is responsible

for one in six UK deaths (equal to smoking) and is estimated to cost the UK ?7.4 billion annually (including ?0.9 billion to the NHS alone).

[Blah Blah]

The health benefits may well be well known but we have seasons. Even hardened cyclists like myself do not like cycling in wind and rain and sometimes struggle to cycle in strong wind. Expecting a whole bunch of people to ditch their cars or public transport for that is just unreasonable. I challenge anyone to try arriving at work soaked through and see how their day goes.

So, given that it is not practical nor reasonable for a lot of people to cycle, good transport management has to be about incentivising reasonable use of any mode of transport. It is never a binary thing, and I would argue that better investment in electric powered alternatives is probably the better way to go on this, if we want to reduce pollution.

As for congestion, London is a city of 8 million people with another estimated 3 million people traveling in for work every day before the lockdown. All of our transport networks are limited by capacity (as anyone traveling at peak hours knows), so the problems are not as simple as saying everyone should ditch their cars and get on a bicycle. Infrastructure isn't keeping up.

[malumbu]

Trying to keep this thread on the positives and how to make this happen rather than rolling out the old excuses, it's good to be level headed but as a cyclist help me on this (measures to promote cycling), otherwise you may be better placed on the ED part of this site where there are four or five threads on LTNs and the like. I've heard it can be pretty cold in Copenhagen and Amsterdam where they seen to cycle all year round.

[malumbu]

Nice article comparing London weather with cities in US and dispelling the myth that it is always raining in London (and no doubt Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow). Quotes 106 days a year in London, which sounds reasonable, let's say half of these days aren't constant rain, and half of these not when you are cycling. So you get wet 30 days a year, and stay dry 365 days a year. It's like saying I don't cycle because of punctures. I probably get two of them a year, two too many but not enough to put me off cycling.

https://www.tripsavvy.com/wettest-cities-usa-vs-rainy-london-3975248#:~:text=London%20averages%20approximately%20106%20rainy,583.6%20millimeters)%20of%20precipitation%20annually.

[Blah Blah]

Weather is not an excuse, it is a reality. Safety is perhaps the best incentive to get people cycling but to pretend there is a limitless ceiling to this just isn't reality. London has seen an abundance of improvements for cycling over the past decades, from blue super highways to cycle boxes at the front of junctions. The cycle hire scheme has also been very successful. So we, as cyclists, can hardly say we are not being catered for.

So where do I think focus should be? Well there are still many junctions that are still too tricky for a lot of cyclists and especially those who lack confidence or experience, so I think the focus should be on those, along with adding to cycle safe routes. None of that needs to happen by alienating other vehicles though. If we want a future where cycling becomes the choice of commuters, outside of times where motor vehicles or public transport is absolutely necessary, then it has to start with children. Children who are confident cyclists are probably more likely to be adult cyclists.

Electric bicycles and motorbikes are coming though. Electric scooters are already here. It is with the arrival of motorised cycling that we might see a significant shift, but with that comes other challenges of course.

[Blah Blah]

And just to add that it is not just rain that makes cycling off putting, it is wind, cold, and sweating or getting oil on nice clothes, and nightime, because yes, a lot of people feel vulnerable at nightime. Be realistic malumbu. Cycling while an option for many people (some of whom do not currently cycle), is not an option for all occasions. So let's talk about integrated transport options instead, ones that reduce all the things we should be looking to reduce. Shaming people because they do not cycle is not one of them.

[malumbu]

I'm rather surprised at the negativity and feel like it is a mindset and that this is the main block to cycling and walking. I could go on at length at the downsides, and today is the biggy, when the clocks go back and you feel so much more vulnerable cycling. You could say the same about walking too. But an interesting example is the Peckham Canal path where now with the dark evenings every groups of youths appear potential muggers. Except they are not. If we can't get more interest in London, where we are streets ahead of most of the population, what chance do we have for middle England. I stated to cycle again not because I wanted to tackle climate change but because one of my house mates did. At that time I considered bikes were for children or going to the pub. So please some constructive suggestions and I will doth my hat to you all.

[Blah Blah]

It is not a mindset to not want to put oneself at risk (whether the risk is real or imagined). It is common sense. No-one wants to be a victim of crime (there have been 41 street robberies in Peckham so far this year, 3 of which were in the vicinity of the canal walk).

If you won't engage with the reasons why some people choose not to or can't cycle, then you are not going to create the conditions that may persuade them to do so. Anecdotal examples are just that, anecdotal. The fact is that we need all types of transport in London for all the reasons I alluded to above. I do most journeys by bicyle, but not when the weather is bad. Nor when my destination is too far away. And nor when I am going out to an occasion that means dressing smart, or doing something as a family. For all of those reasons, around 40 per cent of the journeys I personally make, can not be made by bicycle.

The things that have made my journeys as a cyclist better though, are dedicated cycle lanes, the cycle boxes at the head of junctions, the cycle hire scheme (which really should be extended throughout all of London imo), integrated cycle routes and better cycle parking in well lit areas. I would also add that events like the annual London Freeride (cancelled this year because of covid) are also excellent ways to encourage people to try cycling in a fun way. So maybe more of those.

Cycling takes effort, and it isn't always fun. Before people can get to cycling, they need to get on board with exercise. And that I think is another hurdle to increasing the uptake (but one that electric bicycles will mitigate once the price of them comes down).

[malumbu]

Loads of good points made and we probably share a number of views. I do get grumpy when reasons not to do something are put up, noting that there is always need for a reality check in what at times can feel like a fantasy world. On that note the government vision for walking and cycling has hardly captured the attention of the masses beyond the backlash against Low Traffic Neighbourhoods ? which is not the subject of this thread. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/904146/gear-change-a-bold-vision-for-cycling-and-walking.pdf

The vision looks to address the barriers through four themes. Better streets, including cycle routes which it is somewhat critical of in terms of quality, directness and signposting. Separating cyclists, walkers and road vehicles. Much of this is making it easier for cycling. I?m in a minority in feeling that cyclists should be able to share safe road space with other users. Most road users are courteous, London?s congested roads are generally reasonably safe for competent cyclists partly because traffic speeds are low. But give a bit of free space and the foot goes to the accelerator pedal.

The next two themes are government policy (transport and health) and empowering local authorities. The thing that sticks out here is making it easier to carry cycles on trains and buses. Currently the first can be a hassle and the second none-existant.

The final theme is enabling cycling and protecting cyclists (the vision is very cycling heavy). Bike theft is something that has peed me off ? go to the Netherlands to see how secure bike parking can be provided at low cost to the user. There?s a bit of stuff on firmer enforcement of poor driving. It lacks anything about sharing road space which bothers me.

On safety from the walker/cyclists perspective this is about competence and risk appetite. I expect most of us are competent walkers but would we ever go out at night if we feared being mugged? And cycling is one of the least safe means of getting around so why would we do it?

On other barriers ? can?t control the weather but we can improve road and pavement surfaces and safer junctions and crossings. On clothing, getting sweaty and the like the vision talks about promoting electric bikes. A personal bugbear for me was what to wear if you are going to a formal event ? business style cycle gear is expensive but even wearing relatively casual sports gear you still stick out. I?ve ended up changing in the toilets. The Third Sector always bucked the trend through secure parking and more casual wear.

The Vision doesn't really address the general attitude of the public which I don't believe is particularly pro active transport such as being put off by lycra warriors. Why should I walk with my young family when it is easier to drive. I look at this as why wouldn't unless it was too inconvenient but I'm not typical. Oh dear, I've turned into my parents.....

Apols, much of this has been a precis of the vision rather than original thought but still welcome further views.

[legalalien]

I don?t drive at all so have walked and cycled in various combinations since forever. When I lived in places where there was less public transport I cycled more. In cities walking and decent public transport is much more convenient for me: partly because of weather (you get a lot less wet walking with an umbrella than you do cycling), partly because of flexibility (cycling requires you to take your bike in both directions on a trip), partly because I just can?t be bothered getting a bike out and putting it away.

I?d like to see particular types of journey tackled specifically. So start, say, with short car journeys to schools. Make it impossible to park/ drop off near schools and those will stop pretty quickly. For those needing to make longer journeys, have a dropping point say 500m plus from the school. That will work for the longer journeys but dissuade the short ones. For work journeys, maybe hire bikes from stations to key nodes (the school drop off points even, then parents could take children to those and then bike to the station.

Lots of small things rather than starting with lots of infrastructure focussed on long cycle journeys.

[Nigello]

I agree that mid-long distance cycle journeys are prioritised with special lanes, lights etc. (Shorter journeys on cycles will of course benefit from such infrastructure) and walking or wheelchair use for shorter journeys isn?t promoted because maybe the powers that be can?t demonstrate they?re doing good for pedestrians because, well, what needs to be done to promote and facilitate walking? There?s no road to paint or lights to install because the general road furniture (lampposts and traffic lights, zebras, etc.) is there already, mostly. So, walking is just assumed to be a default option needing little support.

What to do? Pedestrian rights just doesn?t have the same ring as cyclists? rights.

[JohnL]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree that mid-long distance cycle journeys are

> prioritised with special lanes, lights etc.

> (Shorter journeys on cycles will of course benefit

> from such infrastructure) and walking or

> wheelchair use for shorter journeys isn?t promoted

> because maybe the powers that be can?t demonstrate

> they?re doing good for pedestrians because, well,

> what needs to be done to promote and facilitate

> walking? There?s no road to paint or lights to

> install because the general road furniture

> (lampposts and traffic lights, zebras, etc.) is

> there already, mostly. So, walking is just

> assumed to be a default option needing little

> support.

> What to do? Pedestrian rights just doesn?t have

> the same ring as cyclists? rights.

The Government has said painted shared roads for cyclists aren't sufficient and are not supported at present. It has to be physically separated.

[Nigello]

Such a view further supports my view that because cycling is deemed to require very visible infrastructure it registers much more in people?s minds than walking/wheelchairing. How do the authorities promote walking and pedestrian rights as successfully as they do cycling? Do they need to?

[malumbu]

Link to wonderful lockable bike racks - not a replacement for residential bike storage. Dream of this sort of thing and not needing to travel with heavy bike locks. https://bikeep.com/smart-commercial-bike-rack/

[Blah Blah]

Those racks look pretty good Malumbu. I can see lots of businesses installing those.

[Otto2]

I'm a mum cyclist and part of the local problem is yes - separate bike lanes needed. I think a lot of the existing cycling infrastructure thus far is not ideal in solving car reliance in that it is concentrated into going into central London to work and so many of the car journeys are mums or mum-dads that need to get kids laterally in our area - east/west. Tbh this job (school runs, groceries, ferrying to clubs/playdates etc) predominately falls to women and their needs have largely not been anything cycle infrastructure has taken into account and some of this traffic contributes to a good deal of the traffic issues here at certain times.

[legalalien]

I do think they need to a bit. A lot of the short journeys that have been identified as a problem could be replaced by walking rather than cycling - if we could change people?s views on what is socially acceptable. An attempt at changing that through some comms (rather than building stuff) would be relatively inexpensive you?d think...)

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Such a view further supports my view that because

> cycling is deemed to require very visible

> infrastructure it registers much more in people?s

> minds than walking/wheelchairing. How do the

> authorities promote walking and pedestrian rights

> as successfully as they do cycling? Do they need

> to?

[heartblock]

LTNs don?t work, I see that during the school run and cyclists are on the pavement down EDG, also the pavements are a disgrace. The polluted road also means walking is unpleasant. Protected cycle lanes, secure cycle parking and wider pavements are the answer. When I go in to the Uni, I walk and then get a train and walk again, but if there was safe cycle lanes I would cycle all the way. If EDG and LL had protected cycle lanes and secure cycle parking, I think far more people would cycle. All that the LTN does is put me off cycling along my own road. I know of one cyclist who has left her cycling group as she was getting harassed and bullied for being against her local LTN. In reality many people against LTNs are in fact pro-cycling and want less cars on ALL roads.

[malumbu]

You are basing your conclusion on a few weeks experience and views that are somewhat skewed by the backlash/hype. And with regards to the last sentence datasets of one. You are obviously not studying science or engineering!

So to put my cards on the table I am both a cycle instructor and someone who has worked on driving standards and had a few lessons in advanced driving. Advanced driving isn't driving fast but a much better appreciation of what is around you, anticipating the road ahead and respecting other road users and pedestrians. We wouldn't need LTNs if drivers carried more of the responsibility for safe and sustainable transport.

Of course this does not apply to all drivers, and there are other conscientious road users like me.

The good thing is that you can get free cycle training, and perhaps a bike buddy too to help improve confidence and road skills.

As earlier in this thread, cycling is not necessarily utopia and there are many barriers, including the British weather.

Good to see so many other cyclists when I was getting a bike security marked by Franklins today. It all looked pretty amiable, before the rain came down!

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The phenomenon of kids being sent across town to primary school is not a transport problem: it's a schools problem with kids (esp rich kids) having to travel out of their neighbourhoods to go to a good school. Make all schools good and there's much less student commuting.