Council Meeting Live from 4pm today

[northernmonkey]

He's Clive Rates - he spoke for the Dulwich Village RA - ie the street not the area (just in case there is confusion as i find it hard to keep track of which is which).

[rupert james]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Quite a positive message from the council leader

> about addressing concerns to find the best way

> forward.

Lets hope he was not tutored by Sir Humphrey Appleby in speech making."In the fullness of time" etc etc

[JohnL]

How far does local democracy go ? We all seem much more local than a few years ago - maybe because we all have facebook and twitter groups for our own road/block and so make plans for that little area.

[Metallic]

dougiefreeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> For anyone that wants to watch the presentation -

> it's available here:

>

Dougie can you check your private messages please?

[first mate]

Ah, but divide and rule is such a useful tactic.

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have to ensure this is an area-wide

> consultation and that the councillors are engaging

> with all RAs and all stakeholders. For too long

> they have treated this issue on a ward-by-ward

> basis and this is why the problems are so bad. Any

> discussion has to be with ALL stakeholders across

> the whole of Dulwich - not just in the pockets

> where there are the most vocal pro-closure

> activists.

>

> The gentleman at the beginning is he from the

> Dulwich Village RA?

[Rockets]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ah, but divide and rule is such a useful tactic.

>

> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We have to ensure this is an area-wide

> > consultation and that the councillors are

> engaging

> > with all RAs and all stakeholders. For too long

> > they have treated this issue on a ward-by-ward

> > basis and this is why the problems are so bad.

> Any

> > discussion has to be with ALL stakeholders

> across

> > the whole of Dulwich - not just in the pockets

> > where there are the most vocal pro-closure

> > activists.

> >

> > The gentleman at the beginning is he from the

> > Dulwich Village RA?

It is indeed and the council is terrified of doing this on an area-wide basis as they know what happens next....it's simple to do; ask every resident of Dulwich are you for or against the closures.

They can't manipulate the responses from that as they did the CPZ consultation or OHS.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"it's simple to do; ask every resident of Dulwich are you for or against the closures."

What to do about congestion and pollution is a spectrum of possible answers, not a binary yes/no question - unless you want to do absolutely nothing. You ask a "simple" Brexit-like question, you're going to get a "simple" Brexit-like winner-takes-all answer that satisfies no-one...except the extremists at whichever end of the spectrum won.

[dougiefreeman]

First time I?ve agreed with you DKHB - definitely don?t ask binary questions.

However, the council do actually need to ask us something.... rather than just press ahead with their own agenda...

[smooch]

a wonderful analysis of the problem on the youtube video

[Abe_froeman]

But the kind of questions they usually ask are like "Would prefer us to close some roads or to take your first born into lifelong slavry for Toilet St.?"

[smooch]

the problem is the council will not take any notice and will produce some bizarre twisted figures to negate any real concerns. Residents (low value) and businesses (small independants) can go to the wall because someone, somewhere, who has no actual involvement or personal investment in this area gives a toss or actually is interested in the community.

We are a 'nimbies' who can be discounted and ignored.

I read councillor James's post - a very good one in acknowledging the real concerns of the neighbourhood but beautifully skirts really addressing the problem - a true politician. He is making the right noises but actually commits to nothing as he has to tow the party line. This is why we need independant councillors (the problem is they are usually loons who have been booted out of a party for being unacceptable in some way). A bit of hang wringing on James' part but no committment to sorting out the problem - and tbh he hasn't got a hope in hell anyway. we saw that with the CPZ. majority said no, but it was implemented anyway.

[heartblock]

Excellent presentation from Dougie, covered all the points. EDG needs an RA...is there anyone with time to set up?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

" someone, somewhere, who has no actual involvement or personal investment in this area gives a toss or actually is interested in the community..."

This is a weird, xenophobic conspiracy theory. There is not a consensus among locals in favour of the changes to date. There is also not a universal opposition to them. There is also not a shadowy cabal of outsiders trying to impose anything on the stout yeomen of Dulwich.

Southwark council employees and councillors are generally well-intentioned people who believe they are applying their skills to make residents' lives better. You may believe they are failing or missing the target. You may be right. But let's at least start from the proposition that people are acting in good faith instead of presuming they're alien wreckers and saboteurs.

[seenbeen]

Oh well we could wait until the next election

[dougiefreeman]

Huge thanks to fairTgirl for her input having written the vast majority of the information that I presented in the video.

Excellently spoken as well during the meeting.

Here?s hoping for a fairer approach by the council moving forward 🤞

[first mate]

Well done to you both.

[heartblock]

Thanks Dougie and fairTgirl, as someone whose does live on EDG and cycles and walks for over 90% of my journeys I would like less traffic across Dulwich, but this poorly thought out plan just pushes traffic to dangerous levels on already disenfranchised streets, that really need to be paid more attention by the Council.

I can only imagine this is about politics. The areas that traffic has been pushed onto are natural Labour voting areas - I voted Labour in both Council and Parliamentary elections, so are they assuming we will not change our vote, but they are worried about the more affluent areas not voting Labour if the gated community road blocks are removed? By the way 7:00am I witnessed an emergency ambulance perform a U turn on EDG as they could not gain direct access via the gated side streets this morning and had to take a diversion.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The logic there is absurdly convoluted. It requires one to believe that these traffic measures are part of a Labour class war against its core voters, and in favour of residents of Melbourne Grove and Court Lane. It also requires you to ignore the fact that the schemes originate with Southwark employees, not councillors, and to ignore the fact it benefits two state schools arguably at the expense of three private schools.

[JohnL]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I can only imagine this is about politics. The

> areas that traffic has been pushed onto are

> natural Labour voting areas - I voted Labour in

> both Council and Parliamentary elections, so are

> they assuming we will not change our vote, but

> they are worried about the more affluent areas not

> voting Labour if the gated community road blocks

> are removed? By the way 7:00am I witnessed an

> emergency ambulance perform a U turn on EDG as

> they could not gain direct access via the gated

> side streets this morning and had to take a

> diversion.

LOL I believe the exact opposite that this is a Tory plan to make the Mayor look bad. Labour doesn't really have any strategists/game players and to me this stinks of Cummings games.

Maybe Part2 will be to come up with a well known candidate next year.

[JohnL]

Conservative Manifesto - 2019.

"We will pilot low-traffic ?healthy neighbourhoods? ? working with local councils to reduce rat-running cars and lorries, making side streetsnicer to live in and safer to walk, cycle and play in while maintaining the access people need".

The way they have "worked" with Manchester says it all.

https://www.conservatives.com/news/supporting-the-heart-of-our-local-communities

[Rockets]

The problem is that each councillor has been trying to appease their local pro-closure lobbyists who, for a long time, were the only people who had their ear.

On the one-side of us we have Cllr Newens et al in the DV ward who are looking after the interests of their neighbours in Dulwich Village, on the other Cllr McAsh who was listening to the pro-closure lobby group around the Melbourne Grove area.

Neither groups of councillors were talking to each other and neither of them giving any consideration to the impact of the closures outside of their own area. Let's be honest, it wasn't as if people weren't warning them about what was going to happen when the OHS consultation started - check out any of the threads on here and lots of people were predicting exactly what is occurring.

Now Cllr McAsh, given his strong socialist DNA, is genuinely concerned about the plight of people having to live with the consequences of the closures. I sense other councillors are less concerned about what happens at the end of their roads and more worried about their local popularity.

Unfortunately for Cllr McAsh his ward, and his constituents, have become the squeezed middle - it is his ward that is taking the brunt of the DV closures (and will again when the Peckham Rye closures go in).

So the councillors are reaping what they have sowed. They were warned this would happen and took no notice and now they have created massive divisions (both physical and attitudinal) between their wards and constituents and I am not sure how they will rescue this.

It's a complete mess that the council seems hell-bent on making worse as they try desperately to chase the displacement out of their wards so they can say "look the roads are finally quieter - success"!

[legalalien]

It?s going to become even more complicated soon as the traffic displaced from DV and Turney/Burbage goes over the border into Lambeth, I suspect. I gather there are some skirmishes between Bromley and Croydon going on.

[peckhamside]

I still do not believe increased traffic is due to road closures, I suspect more school runs. Opening roads will just increase traffic!!

[legalalien]

I know lots of you will be aware of this already - I wasn?t. The Council publishes a Forward Plan on its website at http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/l635/Printed%20plan%20Forward%20Plan%20November%202020.pdf?T=4

Things to watch out for:

Covid-19 ? Post lockdown highway schemes

Batch 5

To approve a number of highway schemes across the borough will assist social distancing and promote cycle and pedestrian safety - decision due in either October or November - the docts seem slightly inconsistent on this.

Implementation of Southwark School Streets Batch 3

To approve a number of highway schemes across the borough to assist with social distancing and promote cycle and pedestrian safety near schools - again decision due in November

Equality Framework

review of the approach to equality and adoption of equality framework - decision due October

[snowy]

legalalien Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It?s going to become even more complicated soon as

> the traffic displaced from DV and Turney/Burbage

> goes over the border into Lambeth, I suspect. I

> gather there are some skirmishes between Bromley

> and Croydon going on.

Except that Lambeth Councillors last week voted 54-5 in favour of continued support for active travel. Of that five there were 4 Green abstentions, 1 Tory objection.